{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/sflovers/137", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "sflovers", "thread": { "id": 137, "subject": "Gene Wolfe's _Peace_", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1996-07-23T07:23:44+00:00", "last": "1996-07-24T02:35:06+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Mullen", "address": "kieran at phyast.nhn.ou.edu" }, "date": "1996-07-23T07:23:44+00:00", "subject": "Gene Wolfe's _Peace_", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Since I don't see much discussion of Gene Wolfe (other than \"when will the\nfourth book in the Long Sun series come out?\") I thought I'd start the\nball rolling.\n\n First, Wolfe is one the best damn writers alive, IMO. He's one of the\nfew I'll buy in hardcover :-). When I understand (in part) what he's\ndoing, I am amazed by his work. However, I often have the feeling that I\nreally don't quite grasp what he's trying to say. I found _Pandora_ and\n_Castleview_ to be very frustrating, because I *know* that he's trying to\ndo something, but I don't understand what. I felt better about _Free, Live\nFree. But I am currently perplexed by his novel _Peace_.\n\n _Peace_ is about 10 years old, and recently reprinted. I thought I'd\ntry to get some discussion started amongst those of us who have read it.\nHere are a few questions to kick it off:\n\n(1) What is the significance of the title? The only \"obvious\" mentioning\nof peace is in the silly quote from _The Lusty Lawyer_. On the other hand,\nthere is little mention of war in the book.\n\n(2) Did the author die in the opening paragraph? Why is he seemingly\n\"unstuck\" in time? (Actually, he seems to create virtual worlds of his\npast, where he can talk to others.) What does this mean?\n\n(3) Where is the author at the start of the story? Where is the rest of\nthe world?\n\n(4) This book is (as many of Wolfe's novels) filled with people telling\nstories. Why are there so many ghost stories?\n\n(5) What is the significance of the name \"Alden Dennis Weer\"? If I grasp\nat straws, it's \"All then, then is, we are.\" (Wolfe is not beyond bad\npunning, as with \"Alladin Blue\" in _Pandora_.)\n\n(6) It's clear that the bookseller Gold has made a fake Necronomicon. Part\nof this substory is about books, and the reality they create. By creating\na fake Necronomicon, Gold can sell it to a library that already has it\nlisted (as a joke) in its card catalog.\n\n Finally, Wolfe often writes novels that incorporate themes or ideas from\nother classic works. The New Sun series is pretty clearly (to me!) an\nascending Christology. The Long Sun is closer (though *not* a trivial\nretelling) to the story of Abraham or perhaps Paul. _Castleview_ has a lot\nof Arthurian images and themes. The Soldier books draw clearly on Greek\nand Roman myths and history. So what is going on in _Peace_? Is there a\nsimilar subtext? If not, what do you think are the essential themes of the\npiece?\n\nKieran Mullen" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "MegaLiz", "address": "1ol01o at radix.net" }, "date": "1996-07-23T12:47:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe's _Peace_", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Kieran Mullen wrote:\nWhen I understand (in part) what he's doing, I am amazed by his work.\nHowever, I often have the feeling that I really don't quite grasp what\nhe's trying to say. I found _Pandora_ and _Castleview_ to be very\nfrustrating, because I *know* that he's trying to do something, but I\ndon't understand what." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Personally, I think _Pandora_ was mostly for fun and exercise, and it can\nbe enjoyed readily in just that way. I had to admire how believeably he\nspoke from a young girl's point of view. I don't think any secret decoder\nring is necessary.\n\n_Castleview_ continues to be a favorite of mine. Now that I've read it\nseveral times, I still have the feeling that I'd have to read a lot more\nabout King Arthur to \"catch\" all the references; but it has such a lovely,\ndreamy quality to it that I can savor the setting and the confusing\ncharacters and LOVE it while still being lazy." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I felt better about _Free, Live Free. But I am currently perplexed by his\nnovel _Peace_." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I was amazed to find a hate review of _Free, Live Free_ on the web. What's\nto hate? It was one of the first of his books I read, and I thought it was\nvery satisfying." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_Peace_ is about 10 years old, and recently reprinted. I thought I'd try\nto get some discussion started amongst those of us who have read it. Here\nare a few questions to kick it off:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(1) What is the significance of the title? The only \"obvious\" mentioning\nof peace is in the silly quote from _The Lusty Lawyer_. On the other\nhand, there is little mention of war in the book." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I haven't read it yet, but perhaps it refers to \"peace of mind.\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "James Williams", "address": "concern at novagate.com" }, "date": "1996-07-23T17:14:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe's _Peace_", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "MegaLiz wrote:\n(1) What is the significance of the title? The only \"obvious\" mentioning\nof peace is in the silly quote from _The Lusty Lawyer_. On the other\nhand, there is little mention of war in the book." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I haven't read it yet, but perhaps it refers to \"peace of mind.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Well, \"Peace\" is a translation of \"Requiem\", which is what funeral\nmasses are usually called. (From their traditional first line \"Requiem\naeterman dona eis, Domine.\" Grant them, Lord, peace eternal.) Since there\nis some evidence in the novel that the narrator is a ghost flitting about a\nhaunted house, this seems to fit. (Also, my edition of the novel has a\nbunch of rather motley-looking ghosts peering out from behind the title.)\n I think that this is Wolfe's best work, although _The Fifth Head of\nCerberus_ comes close, as does the _New Sun_ books. I remember Wolfe\nstating (either in an essay or an interview) that he feels that America is\nsomething of a mythical land, and that we will become the Hy Brasil or\nAtlantis of subsequent ages - an impossible land populated by magicians and\nwonder-workers, who fly to distant worlds and carve mountains as\nmonuments. One of the characters in the novel invents a process that \"gins\ngold from the earth\" (a chemical process that converts potatoes into\nsynthetic orange juice). The large amount of ghosts in the novel could be\nattributed to America's charmed life.\n Wolfe also seems to feel that the characters in books lead a sort of\nghostly existence, coming to life only when a living reader disturbs their\nrest (such as the revenant in _The Book of the Names of the Dead_ in the\nnovel.)\n I will have to read _Peace_ again - it's been quite a few years." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "revjack at radix.net", "address": "revjack at radix.net" }, "date": "1996-07-24T02:35:06+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe's _Peace_", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "James Williams wrote:\n(Also, my edition of the novel has a bunch of rather motley-looking ghosts\npeering out from behind the title.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Drawn by Gahghan Wilson, no less! Who'da thunk?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I will have to read _Peace_ again- it's been quite a few years." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's certaily one of his best. I almost missed it forever, but someone\nspotted it along with the \"Aries\" book at a used book sale for a buck each,\nand picked them up for me, knowing that I was a big fan.\n\nOne of the things that makes a book \"good\" for me is if it *haunts* me\nafterward - a good one will have me daydreaming about it and making\ninvoluntary associations with the people and things around me in the world,\ndays and weeks after having read it. Almost everything Wolfe has written\ndoes this to me. He is wonderful, a magician.\n\nRJ" } ] } ] }