{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/sflovers/139", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "sflovers", "thread": { "id": 139, "subject": "_Peace_ by Gene Wolfe (SPOILERS)", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "1996-09-18T00:42:04+00:00", "last": "1996-11-16T18:51:08+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "adam louis stephanides", "address": "astephan at students.uiuc.edu" }, "date": "1996-09-18T00:42:04+00:00", "subject": "_Peace_ by Gene Wolfe (SPOILERS)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I recently reread _Peace_ by Gene Wolfe. I accept that Weer is dead, but\nI'm not sure I found all the evidence for this, or that I fully understand\nwhat's there. Here is the internal evidence I found, in roughly descending\norder of importance (as distinct from the external evidence that Wolfe has\napparently said Weer is supposed to be dead):\n\n1) At the start of the book we are told that the elm tree planted by\nEleanor Bold fell outside the window of Weer's house. Towards the end we\nlearn that \"Mrs. Porter's\" hobby is to plant trees on the graves of her\nfriends. It is indicated that Mrs. Porter is Eleanor Bold.\n\n2) It is very unlikely that a wealthy man who is as sick as Weer purports\nto be would be living entirely on his own, without a nurse or housekeeper;\nand why would he be unable to see a real doctor?\n\n3) The ghost stories incorporated in the book, which are no proof of\nanything, but set us thinking in that direction.\n\nIs there anything I've missed?\n\nI also have to admit that I don't fully understand how the elm tree is\nsupposed to work. How do we know that the tree is planted on Weer's grave?\nBecause it is outside Weer's house? But wouldn't it be more usual for Weer\nto be buried in a cemetery?\n\nSomebody once suggested in this group that Weer's house was a \"memory\npalace\": a mnemonic device existing only in Weer's mind. This would take\ncare of the prob- lem in the last paragraph, but it seems unlikely to me\nfor two reasons:\n\n1) Weer clearly recalls consulting with an architect about the blueprints\nof the house.\n\n2) In my understanding of such \"memory palaces\" (which is drawn primarily\nfrom _Little, Big_, so I might very well be wrong), the idea was that you\nfilled the rooms or other places you imagined with objects which were\nsupposed to call to mind whatever you wanted to remember, not with the\nexact furnishings those rooms had in real life.\n\nAny help would be most appreciated.\n\nThanks in advance.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Cash", "address": "cash at convex.com" }, "date": "1996-09-18T15:49:12+00:00", "subject": "Re: _Peace_ by Gene Wolfe (SPOILERS)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "slight SPOILERS for PEACE and SOLDIER of ARETE\n\nI haven't read PEACE yet, but I do recall that Latro builds just such a\n\"memory place\" (or memory palace) in SOLDIER of ARETE. I'm not sure how\nrelevant that is, though... Well, perhaps if you're dead, you need a\n\"memory place\" to remind you of your life, and who you were? And what would\nbe better for this purpose than your actual house, with the furnishings\ntied to your actual memories? And since you're dead, the house is perhaps\nin some mystical way coincident with your grave... that would explain the\ntree." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "adam louis stephanides", "address": "astephan at students.uiuc.edu" }, "date": "1996-11-16T18:51:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: _Peace_ by Gene Wolfe (SPOILERS)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "kmaroney at crossover.com (Kevin J. Maroney) writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "First, Wolfe has confirmed that Weer is a ghost, wandering through a\nghost's life; further, most of the events of the novel only make sense in\nthat context." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I accept this; but I think it would be a Good Thing if somebody (not me; I\ndon't know the book well enough) were to spell out the case for this in\ndetail.\n\nIn my original post, I listed the evidence I saw for Weer being dead, which\nwas\n\n1) the elm tree bit;\n\n2) the unlikelihood of somebody as rich and as sick as Weer ostensibly is\nbeing left completely alone (no servants or medical supervision), as he\nsupposedly is;\n\n3) the ghost stories embedded in the book.\n\nDamien Broderick, in the New York Review of Science Fiction, has pointed\nout the quote from Gold's Necronomicon about \"the soul of the dead man,\nseeking now in all the chambers under the vault of the skull its old\nresting places.\" (Which does support the view that Weer's house is\nimaginary.) All this convinces me, but I'm not sure it would convince a\nskeptic.\n\nRegarding Wolfe's testimony, without getting into an argument about the\n\"intentional fallacy,\" I think it would be a flaw in the book if it were\nnot possible to determine from the text alone that Weer is dead (assuming,\nas I do, that he is intended to be dead).\n\nAdam" } ] } ] }