{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/sflovers/36", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "sflovers", "thread": { "id": 36, "subject": "Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1984-11-14T19:09:01+00:00", "last": "1984-11-23T13:27:52+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris Henrich", "address": "cjh at petsd.uucp" }, "date": "1984-11-14T19:09:01+00:00", "subject": "Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ian Kaplan writes:\n\n In these books Wolfe has woven an incredibly\ncomplex plot whose central point I hoped would be revealed in the\nlast book. For me at least, this did not happen and the books\nremain enigmatic. In the last few pages of the last New Sun book,\n\"The Citadel of the Autarch\", the new Autarch, whose previous career\nwe have followed, states that he is leaving the Book of the New Sun\nbehind on earth and going to meet the extra-terrestrials. While on\nthis flight he will rewrite the book a second time. Since he has\nperfect memory, he can reproduce the book exactly. He says that if\nyou don't understand the book, read it a second time, just as he is\nwriting it a second time.\n\n I found that repeated readings of these books were needed, not\nonly to refresh my memory of them (they came out at intervals of 8\nto 12 months) but also to understand them at all. Wolfe apparently\nwants the reader to work hard (as witness his use of obscure words,\nnot explained), and in many places a \"throw-away line\" clarifies\nsomething that appeared hundreds of pages back, or even in a\nprevious volume.\n\n What does it all mean?\n I don't know that it *has* to mean anything. If a book engages\nthe reader's attention and gives enjoyment, then it is satisfactory.\nIf it survives several attentive rereadings, and still gives\nenjoyment, it is excellent. I think _The_New_Sun_ qualifies.\n One reservation: Severian's promotion to the position of\nAutarch seems unmotivated; i.e. it does not make sense in the\ncontext of the book. (Even the characters in the book seem to feel\ntheir world is pretty weird.) This is a defect, and is not repaired\nby having the previous Autarch suggest that indeed it was\nunmotivated. But maybe, the next time around, I'll see why Severian\nwas the obvious choice, and this was the obvious thing to happen to\nhim.\n\nRegards,\nChris\n\nFull-Name: Christopher J. Henrich" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Donn Seeley", "address": "donn at utah-gr.uucp" }, "date": "1984-11-23T13:27:52+00:00", "subject": "Re: Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've been out of town and just recently managed to get caught up\nwith everything -- otherwise I would have attended to this earlier.\n(Perhaps not coincidentally, my trip was to recover my library from\nstorage, including THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN!) Beware: some spoilers\nmay lurk in the following discussion...\n\nIn the last chapter of THE CITADEL OF THE AUTARCH, Severian says:\n\n Have I told you all I promised? I am aware that at various\n places in my narrative I have pledged that this or that\n should be made clear in the knitting up of the story. I\n remember them all, I am sure, but then I remember so much\n else. Before you assume that I have cheated you, read\n again, as I will write again.\n\nWolfe is something of a fan of detective fiction (as you might guess\nfrom his story 'The Rubber Bend'), and the last several chapters\nconsist of the summation which the great detective always makes at\nthe end of the story. Of course Wolfe doesn't want to spoil the fun\nof finding the answers, so he answers things obliquely, and you have\nto read carefully to guess at what particular puzzle is being\nexplained.\n\nI don't like to spoil the fun either, but I will mention some points\nto direct your re-reading that stem from things I've noticed or read\nelsewhere.\n\n + Easy one: Can you draw Severian's family tree? There are a\n number of red herrings which appear in the course of the\n books but the answer to this is fairly clear by the end of\n CITADEL.\n\n + What is the connection between the gold coin which Vodalus\n gave to Severian, and Dr. Talos? What relates it to the Sun\n and to the old mausoleum in the necropolis of the Citadel?\n Bonus question, unrelated: What was the original function of\n the Citadel?\n\n + What generates the apparitions of Master Malrubius and the\n dog, Triskele? This should be easy to answer, perhaps more\n so because of the recent Asimov novel. (There does seem to\n be a curious parallel between Asimov's universe and\n Wolfe's...)\n\n + What really happened in the climactic event of THE CLAW OF\n THE CONCILIATOR? I don't believe this is stated directly\n but it is relatively straightforward to guess.\n\n + What is the basis of the Urthian religion? Analogies with\n at least two of our religions come to mind.\n\n + Who is the Conciliator? What is Severian's connection to\n him, and to the New Sun? Who is responsible for this\n connection?\n\n + Finally, why is a rose's thorn as efficacious as the Claw?\n If you understand this, you understand the core of the\n books.\n\nYou have 30 minutes. Put your pencil down to indicate when you have\nfinished. Start now.\n\nThere are lots of fun things to look for besides plot events, of\ncourse. One is tracing the origins of the stories and legends which\nthe people of Urth tell. Another is catching references to Jorge\nLuis Borges' works; two places to look are the story of Domnina's\nencounter with Father Inire, and 'The Tale of the Student and His\nSon'. (There are others, too...) Another is looking for little\nclevernesses -- for example, what book in the set of four which\nSeverian fetches for Thecla does he NOT describe? (I wouldn't have\nnoticed this if Wolfe hadn't mentioned it in an article.) If you\nfancy this sort of thing, it helps to have a copy of THE CASTLE OF\nTHE OTTER and to read 'The Books in THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN' in\nPLAN[E]T ENGINEERING (which also has a map of the continent on which\nNessus is located).\n\nWolfe started working on THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN in 1975 and the\nlast volume wasn't published until 1983. Think of all the effort\nthat went into it -- it shouldn't be surprising that Wolfe wants the\nreader to do some work too.\n\nIf all else fails, you can see if the answers are in THE URTH OF THE\nNEW SUN when it comes out," } ] } ] }