{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/sflovers/63", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "sflovers", "thread": { "id": 63, "subject": "Book of the New Sun -- Severian's mother", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1987-03-26T19:46:35+00:00", "last": "1987-03-30T21:18:27+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "obrien", "address": "obrien at aero2.aero.org" }, "date": "1987-03-26T19:46:35+00:00", "subject": "Book of the New Sun -- Severian's mother", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is a specialty question for those folks who've read \"The\nBook of the New Sun\" with some degree of care.\n\n Wolfe claims that he tied up all the loose ends. Wolfe is also\nknown for incredible subtleties. Therefore, I'd like to know if\nanyone out there has any clues as to the real identity of Severian's\nmother.\n\n Ouen claims that her name was Catherine, and that she ran away\nfrom a group of monials. Some time after her tryst with Ouen, the\nlaw took her away, presumably to the Matachin Tower, where the\ninfant Severian was adopted into the Order.\n\n The question is, can anyone match this up with any of the other\ncharacters in the book? Cyriaca, for instance? Or is it indeed\ntrue that this was some completely new person, never met or referred\nto by anyone else?\n\nMike O'Brien\nobrien at aerospace.aero.org" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin Maroney", "address": "dg_rtp!kjm at rutgers.edu" }, "date": "1987-03-28T01:08:45+00:00", "subject": "Re: Book of the New Sun -- Severian's mother", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I feel fairly confident in stating that Catherine was not in any way\nconnected with the other characters of the novel. Although with the\nbizarre folds in time, there's always the possibility that Catherine\nis Saint Katherine, the patron of the Order of Seekers of Truth and\nPenitence. But I'd have to see some real, textual evidence for this\nbefore I would accept it. Maybe there's something about her in\n_Castle of The Otter_ (or maybe one or the other Catherine will be\nmentioned in _The Urth of the New Sun_, which is due out in November\nfrom Tor).\n\nIs there anyone else out there willing, as I am, to make the claim\nthat this four-volume novel is the crowning achievement of\nS(peculative)F(iction)? I read these as they came out, and thought\nhighly of them; but when I re-read them in one sitting earlier in\nthe year, I (figuratively) saw God.\n\nKevin J. Maroney" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Chris Jarocha-Ernst", "address": "cje at elbereth.rutgers.edu" }, "date": "1987-03-30T18:56:07+00:00", "subject": "Re: Book of the New Sun -- Severian's mother", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "kjm at dg_rtp.UUCP (Kevin Maroney) writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I feel fairly confident in stating that Catherine was not in any\nway connected with the other characters of the novel. Although\nwith the bizarre folds in time, there's always the possibility\nthat Catherine is Saint Katherine, the patron of the Order of\nSeekers of Truth and Penitence." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Realize that this is coming from someone who's read the first 2\nbooks only and so may be unfamiliar with later developments.\n\nIn the Christian Church, Saint Catherine of Alexandria was tortured\nto death (as were many saints, admittedly) on the wheel. I don't\nknow what she's supposed to be the Patron Saint of, but it wouldn't\nbe surprising if she were so honored by the Torturers.\n\nSide notes: a Catherine('s) Wheel is also an acrobatic cartwheel and\na type of fireworks. Some British pubs are named \"The Cat and\nWheel\" after a corruption of \"Catherine's Wheel\". The point here is\nthat this woman and her torture device are linked in popular\nculture, making her an even more likely candidate as Patron Saint of\nTorturers. (*And no flames about bad taste! Since when has the\nChurch cared about bad taste? :-) *)\n\nChris Jarocha-Ernst" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Allan Terry", "address": "aterry at teknowledge-vaxc.arpa" }, "date": "1987-03-30T21:18:27+00:00", "subject": "Re: Book of the New Sun -- Severian's mother", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Is there anyone else out there willing, as I am, to make the claim\nthat this four-volume novel is the crowning achievement of\nS(peculative)F(iction)? I read these as they came out, and\nthought highly of them; but when I re-read them in one sitting\nearlier in the year, I (figuratively) saw God." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "YES! YES! The Book of the New Sun is one of the best books I ever\nread. I hold this up to anybody else's favorite literature. I\ngenerally feel this way about most of Wolfe's work (ever read\nPeace?), but this is his best. This book has so much depth and\ntexture that you could read it dozens of times and still be\nsurprised.\n\nHow could anybody keep everything so knit together over four volumes\nand several years of writing them? Everything ties in with\neverything else. I love the way he gives an explanation of parts of\nhis world the way science fiction writers do, but then gives\ndifferent and contradictory explanations later. Nothing neat and\ntidy, more like life. I love the historical feel to his society far\nin our future. The terminology sounds roman, the journey sounds\nlike a Midaevel pilgrimage, yet when people dig they find layer upon\nlayer of prior civilizations. I love his passion for telling\nstrange little stories (and the translated story of the Ascian is a\nmarvel). Where else in SF have you seen an honest-to-God\nhagiography? I love his jokes, like the Frankenstein turnabout. Or\nSeverian's guild: the Seekers for Truth and Penitence, commonly\nknown as the Torturers. But mostly I just like the writing. It\ntakes a master to bring a reader to the logical acceptance of\nVolodius' alzebo feast or to bring the reader to appreciate that\nSeverian is an excellent carnifex, one who is part of a rich\ntradition and who honestly plies his craft. I can't recommend it\nmore highly. Besides, the cover of the first book is sure fire to\nget you a seat by yourself on a crowded Muni bus.\n\nMy question back is did anybody else feel a jar in Severian's\nattitude about women? He has a certain detachment for people and\nfor his own body--I suppose necessary in his line of work, or for\nsomebody en route to \"higher things\". I can also understand that\nwomen were not part of his upbringing. Still, he seems too casual\nabout Dorcas and her feelings. Why is he so hung up on Agila (sp?)\nconsidering her feelings back? He screws around but his heart does\nnot seem to be in it. I have not quite figured out what Wolfe was\ndoing with this part of Severian's character.\n\nAllan" } ] } ] }