Subject: Pandora/Gene Wolfe

From: cynthia teague <cteague at uvmvm.bitnet>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 1991 01:31:15 +0000

I have just finished *Pandora by Holly Hollander* by Gene Wolfe.  This is a
mystery, not sf, but since I read it because I had seen his name here, I'm
posting my comments to this list.  It was an okay book, neither memorable
nor unpleasant, which is the overall impression of him I've gotten from
this list.  What really threw me, though, is that the book is set in my
home town.  Wolfe has taken the town, made some transparent and
funny-sounding name changes, and used it as is.  For example, Barrington
becomes Barton, which is surrounded by Barton Hills (the rich part of town)
and South Barton (still fairly rural); their counterparts surround
Barrington.  A nearby town is called Palestine instead of Palatine.  The
Chicago & Northwestern railway (CNW) becomes the Chicago, Wisconsin and
Northern (CWN).  A store called Catchpenny is transformed into Snatchpenny.
Lake County is renamed Pool County.  A local newscaster named Walter
Jacobson shows up as Ben Jacobs.  And the scene of the crime, the Barton
Antiques and Art Fair, really exists as the Barrington Art dFair, though
it's much less elaborate and snooty than Wolfe describes it.  The high
school really is as big as he says, though.  What bothers me is not that he
used my home town, but that he was so unimaginative about it.  Pool County,
indeed!  (And I'm pretty sure that the town he calls Dawn is really
Halfday, a much more plausible name, though I haven't compared distances on
the map.)  Sara Peretsky's books make me nostalgic for my old neighborhood
in Chicago (several blocks north of and somewhat seedier than hers), and
Emma Bull makes Milwaukee vivid, even though I've never been there.  But
Wolfe seems to have taken a city plan and gone through it like a high
school plagiarist, changing a name here and there to avoid coming up with
something original.  It really makes me wonder about the originality of his
science fiction.  Any comments?

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From: R o d Johnson <rjohnson at vela.acs.oakland.edu>
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 1991 04:03:18 +0000

CTEAGUE at uvmvm.BITNET (cynthia teague) writes:
>I have just finished *Pandora by Holly Hollander* by Gene Wolfe.  This is
>a mystery, not sf, but since I read it because I had seen his name here,
>I'm posting my comments to this list.  It was an okay book, neither
>memorable nor unpleasant, which is the overall impression of him I've
>gotten from this list.

I'm surprised that's the impression you've gotten from this
{newsgroup|list}, but let me try to correct it a little bit.  In my
opinion, Wolfe at his best is one of the most memorable of SF authors; "his
best" being "The Fifth Head of Cerberus", the Book of the New Sun tetralogy
and its appendix "The Urth of the New Sun", and various stories, many
collected in "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other
Stories."  Wolfe is really sui generis; the fact that he's been dabbling in
genre lately (and turning out fairly uninspired stuff, witness
"Castleview") shouldn't blind you to the considerable, and somewhat
uncategorizable, virtues of his Really Good Stuff.

(By the way, "Castleview" takes place somewhere around your hometown too.
I imagine it as out past Aurora somewhere.)

>Emma Bull makes Milwaukee vivid, even though I've never been there.

Neat trick, considering she writes about Minneapolis. :) Taking the War for
the Oaks tour of Mpls is pretty fun; you should do it if you ever get the
chance.

>But Wolfe seems to have taken a city plan and gone through it like a high
>something original.  It really makes me wonder about the originality of
>his science fiction.  Any comments?

Wolfe is a tricky guy, and I think a restless one.  He seems to go through
phases of experimentation, which can produce failures, followed by
masterpieces.  Right now he seems to be putting out busy, chaotic, cryptic
novels.  Who knows what great work might follow from this?  Several
post-New Sun works have been failures, in my opinion - "There are Doors",
"Castleview", "Free Live Free" but, the successes are as original as
anything you could ever wish for, believe me.  Even if you *hate* "Soldier
of the Mist", for instance, it's difficult to see it as being imitative of
anything else in recent English fiction, I think.  Don't give up on him,
and *try* the New Sun books ("The Shadow of the Torturer" is where it
starts).

Rod Johnson

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From: seth alan tisue <tisu at quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 08 Feb 1991 08:57:38 +0000

rjohnson at vela.acs.oakland.edu (R o d Johnson) writes:
>anything else in recent English fiction, I think.

I agree about ~There Are Doors"...  That was the dullest book I've ever
read by him; such an interesting premise, too.  The first half wasn't bad
and then the book just spiralled around aimlessly after that.  Haven't read
"Castleview" yet, nor "Soldier of the Mist".  With that series, I'm waiting
until Wolfe finishes writing all the books, so I can read them in order
without long pauses in between.  My first foray into SotM made it pretty
clear that it was going to be at least as (delightfully!) difficult to
assimilate as "The Book of the New Sun", which I could never have followed
if I'd had to wait a year between books.  Oh well.

Seth Tisue
University of Chicago                              
P.O. Box 5975

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From: Shawn L. Baird <bairds at eecs.cs.pdx.edu>
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 1991 08:44:29 +0000

>>Wolfe is a tricky guy, and I think a restless one.  He seems to go
>>through phases of experimentation, which can produce failures, followed
>>by masterpieces.  Right now he seems to be putting out busy, chaotic,
>>cryptic novels.  Who knows what great work might follow from this?
>>Several post-New Sun works have been failures, in my opinion - "There are
>>Doors", "Castleview", "Free Live Free" but, the successes are as original
>>as anything you could ever wish for, believe [...]
>
>and then the book just spiralled around aimlessly after that.  Haven't
>read "Castleview" yet, nor "Soldier of the Mist".  With that series, I'm
>waiting [...]

I have to say that I liked _There Are Doors_, although I wouldn't count it
as one of my favorites. I haven't read _Castleview_ yet.

>if I'd had to wait a year between books.  Oh well.

_Soldier of the Mist_ is an excellent book, one of my favorite Gene Wolfe
novels. I didn't find _Soldier of Arete_ as pleasurable, unfortunately. As
far as short stories go, you can't beat _The Death of Doctor Island and
Other Stories and Other Stories_ or his rather new anthology _Endangered
Species_. Just a few years ago, or so, the Weird Tales magazine was
restarted with the first issue being about half dedicated to Gene Wolfe. It
had some very good stories.
   I must say that I feel that one of the prerequisites for being a Gene
Wolfe fan is being able to take a sort of surreal outlook on life and, in
fact, one has to wonder sometimes if these stories aren't associated with
hallucinogens or some such. Sometimes, I almost feel like I'm full of
hallucinogens because it all gets so weird.

Shawn L. Baird
17650 SE Cason Rd.

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From: Dan Tilque <dant at mtdoom.wr.tek.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 1991 00:27:35 +0000

tisu at quads.uchicago.edu (seth alan tisue) writes:
>[...] "Soldier of the Mist".  With that series, I'm waiting until Wolfe
>finishes writing all the books, so I can read them in order without long
>pauses in between.  My first foray into SotM made it pretty clear that it
>was going to be at least as (delightfully!) difficult to assimilate as
>"The Book of the New Sun", which I could never have followed if I'd had to
>wait a year between books.  Oh well.

Based on a number of internal references (both in the prefaces and in the
text), I do not expect anymore "Solder of" books.  Unfortunately, I can't
say why without giving some pretty serious spoilers, and since you haven't
read the books yet, I'm sure you don't want them.

As for waiting for all the books, that's a good idea.  After reading
_Soldier of Arete_, I felt the need to go back and reread _Mist_ again and
then reread _Arete_ immediately after.  I also felt like I should be taking
notes - I kept forgetting everything from more than a chapter or two
before.

Dan Tilque

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From: seth alan tisue <tisu at quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 1991 03:17:40 +0000

bairds at eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Shawn L. Baird) writes:
>Species_.

I FINALLY found a copy of TDoDIaOS after literally years of looking.  Dug
it up in a used bookstore.  I think it went out of print due to the demise
of Pocket's SF line in the early eighties.  I enjoyed _Endangered Species_
quite a bit, although I don't think any of Wolfe's stories match any of his
novels.  This is probably just a personal preference I have for novels in
almost all cases.  If I thought about for a while I might be able to argue
that his talents are more suited to novel-length work.

>hallucinogens because it all gets so weird.

I strongly doubt that Wolfe takes drugs.  From what I've read I've gotten
the impression that he's straight as can be; Korean war veteran and editor
of a plant engineering magazine.  (Then again, at least one prospective
Supreme Court justice smoked pot in the sixties.)

Seth Tisue
University of Chicago                              
P.O. Box 5975