129 quoted lines · 1–2 deep
At 21:10 18-07-98 -0700, you wrote:
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001 - "William H. Ansley" <wans - Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space
002 - "Robert Borski" <rborski@ - Sanderson's Abandonment
003 - "Alice Turner" <al@interp - Re: Digest urth.v017.n004
004 - Derek Bell <dbell at maths.t - Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space
005 - raster at highfiber.com (Cha - Re: Claudius
URTH Digest -- for discussion of Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works
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From: "William H. Ansley" <wansley at warwick.net>
Subject: Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:50:38 -0400
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In-Reply-To: <199807180216.TAA14355 at lists1.best.com>
One of the more puzzling names in THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS to be sourced is the Country of Friends. It's cited by the abos as the possible homeport of the star-faring Homo sapiens pangalacticus, who've traveled to Saint Anne in the distant past, and mentioned in the same breath as Atlantis and Gondwanaland.
I'm now speculating it relates to the Aztecs.
This is because Texas--where Gene Wolfe grew up--is derived from the Indian word "texia," meaning "friends." And since Texas was once part of Mexico, it's possible the Country of Friends generally refers to Aztecan civilization.
I like this too.
I have a nagging idea that the phrase "the Country of Friends" occurs elsewhere in Wolfe and I have seen it recently in my rereading. If I find the reference, I will certainly post.
William Ansley
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From: "Robert Borski" <rborski at coredcs.com>
Subject: Sanderson's Abandonment
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:26:00 -0500
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Earlier, in regards to my Continuing Westward post, Sean Whalen (aka prion) wrote:
"This seems to fit, but how does it fit in that he originally thought that she stabbed Sanderson? He didn't just decide to leave him, he thought that he was dead."
This may relate to some aspect of a Kipling short story (The Phantom Rickshaw?), but I'm not sure--it's been 30+ years since I read SOLDIERS THREE and the other collections. Or it may be simple irony. Paris, the Great Seducer, undone by his own lust (whereas the Paris of legend stakes a claim to the most beautiful woman in the world and precipitates a war).
Of course, all of the Homeric correspondences are rather loosely clumped together--hence the notion of Greek Odysseus and Trojan Paris as shipmates--so the search for parallels my be intriniscally flawed to begin with, at least if we expect 100% fidelity with the Illiad/Odyssey.
Also, what I forgot to mention in my Cherry Jubilee piece is that KGB agent Vera Oussenko, who, as you mention, is arrested, represents truth, which she is seeking, even though she gets it wrong (Vera = veritas), only in the inverted value system of CJ she's "punished"--not being allowed to disembark, she's spared the hell of Mars.
Robert Borski
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From: "Alice Turner" <al at interport.net>
Subject: Re: Digest urth.v017.n004
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 03:16:27 -0400
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Don't know if this has been brought up before, but if Owen/Ouen is considered to be the Welsh/Celtic equivalent of Eugene, doesn't that mean Sev's father might also be called Gene?
From the Oxford book of English Christian names:
OWEN: a common Welsh name; in Middle English romances often spelled Owain, Owayne, Ywain. It has been supposed to be derived from Latin Eugenius...see Ewan. (Ouen)
EWEN: this name, now confined to Scotland, was once common in England...It is probably the same as Irish and Gaelic Eoghan 'a youth,' which is frequent in Celtic legend and history. Eoghan is usually derived from Primitive Celtic Eugenius 'well-born,' from which is derived Old Welsh Euguein which later became Middle Welsh Ewein, Ywein, whence modern Welsh Owain, Owen.
Bravo, scolex. Thank you.
-alga-
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From: Derek Bell <dbell at maths.tcd.ie>
Subject: Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:22:08 +0100
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In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:50:38 EDT."
<199807180352.UAA19972 at lists1.best.com>
In message <199807180352.UAA19972 at lists1.best.com>, "William H. Ansley" writes:
I have a nagging idea that the phrase "the Country of Friends" occurs elsewhere in Wolfe and I have seen it recently in my rereading. If I find the reference, I will certainly post.
I think it's in the short story Feather Tigers, IIRC. It
occurs in the dialog between the main protagonist and the sky(space?) yacht.
Derek
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From: raster at highfiber.com (Charles Dye)
Subject: Re: Claudius
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:36:57 -0600 (MDT)
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CRCulver at aol.com writes:
Alex:
< Has there been any discussion on the list (sorry, I'm new and haven't had time to exhaustively browse the archives) of similarities between Severian and Claudius, both the historical emperor and the charming narrator of the two Robert Graves novels?>
The point that comes to mind first is that both Claudius and Severian plan to write a manuscript they believe no one will read and get rid of it in a lead coffer.
The dead giveaway, for me anyhow, was the scene where Severian produces one of 'his' aes in the era of Typhon:
He examined it, bit it, and gave it back to me. "Gold all right.
Looks a trifle like you, 'cept he seems to have got himself cut up.
Don't suppose you noticed."
"No," I said. "I never thought of it."
Hadelin nodded and pushed back his chair. "A man doesn't shave himself
sidewise. See you in the morning, sieur, madame."
Compare with a scene from "Claudius the God" chapter 6 :
It pleased my vanity to have my head on the coins.... Portraits on
coins, however, are always disappointing because they are executed in
profile, and it comes as a shock, when one sees it in a portrait, that
one really looks like that to people standing beside one. For one's
full face, because of the familiarity that mirrors give it, a certain
toleration and even affection is felt; but I must say that when I first
saw the model that the mint-masters were striking for me I grew angry
and asked whether it was intended to be a caricature.
Robert Graves once did a translation of "The Lives of the Twelve Caesars"
in which each Emperor's chapter was illustrated with the appropriate aureus.
raster at highfiber.com
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