{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1008", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1008, "subject": "unsuscribe- Digest urth.v017.n005", "messages": 1, "voices": 1, "first": "1998-07-19T17:32:19+00:00", "last": "1998-07-19T17:32:19+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Internet Megantic", "address": "support at megantic.net" }, "date": "1998-07-19T17:32:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) unsuscribe- Digest urth.v017.n005", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 21:10 18-07-98 -0700, you wrote:\n\n-------------- BEGIN urth.v017.n005 --------------\n\n 001 - \"William H. Ansley\" \nSubject: Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space\nDate: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:50:38 -0400\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\nIn-Reply-To: <199807180216.TAA14355 at lists1.best.com>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "One of the more puzzling names in THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS to be sourced\nis the Country of Friends. It's cited by the abos as the possible homeport\nof the star-faring Homo sapiens pangalacticus, who've traveled to Saint\nAnne in the distant past, and mentioned in the same breath as Atlantis and\nGondwanaland.\n\nI'm now speculating it relates to the Aztecs.\n\nThis is because Texas--where Gene Wolfe grew up--is derived from the Indian\nword \"texia,\" meaning \"friends.\" And since Texas was once part of Mexico,\nit's possible the Country of Friends generally refers to Aztecan\ncivilization." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I like this too.\n\nI have a nagging idea that the phrase \"the Country of Friends\" occurs\nelsewhere in Wolfe and I have seen it recently in my rereading. If I find\nthe reference, I will certainly post.\n\nWilliam Ansley\n\n\n\n\n--------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.2 ---------------\n\nFrom: \"Robert Borski\" \nSubject: Sanderson's Abandonment\nDate: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:26:00 -0500\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\n\nEarlier, in regards to my Continuing Westward post, Sean Whalen (aka prion)\nwrote:\n\n\"This seems to fit, but how does it fit in that he originally thought\nthat she stabbed Sanderson? He didn't just decide to leave him, he\nthought that he was dead.\"\n\nThis may relate to some aspect of a Kipling short story (The Phantom\nRickshaw?), but I'm not sure--it's been 30+ years since I read SOLDIERS\nTHREE and the other collections. Or it may be simple irony. Paris, the\nGreat Seducer, undone by his own lust (whereas the Paris of legend stakes a\nclaim to the most beautiful woman in the world and precipitates a war).\n\nOf course, all of the Homeric correspondences are rather loosely clumped\ntogether--hence the notion of Greek Odysseus and Trojan Paris as\nshipmates--so the search for parallels my be intriniscally flawed to begin\nwith, at least if we expect 100% fidelity with the Illiad/Odyssey.\n\nAlso, what I forgot to mention in my Cherry Jubilee piece is that KGB agent\nVera Oussenko, who, as you mention, is arrested, represents truth, which\nshe is seeking, even though she gets it wrong (Vera = veritas), only in the\ninverted value system of CJ she's \"punished\"--not being allowed to\ndisembark, she's spared the hell of Mars.\n\nRobert Borski\n\n\n\n\n\n--------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.3 ---------------\n\nFrom: \"Alice Turner\" \nSubject: Re: Digest urth.v017.n004\nDate: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 03:16:27 -0400\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain;\ncharset=\"iso-8859-1\"\nContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Don't know if this has been brought up before, but if Owen/Ouen is\nconsidered to be the Welsh/Celtic equivalent of Eugene, doesn't that mean\nSev's father might also be called Gene?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From the Oxford book of English Christian names:\n\nOWEN: a common Welsh name; in Middle English romances often spelled Owain,\nOwayne, Ywain. It has been supposed to be derived from Latin Eugenius...see\nEwan. (Ouen)\n\nEWEN: this name, now confined to Scotland, was once common in England...It\nis probably the same as Irish and Gaelic Eoghan 'a youth,' which is frequent\nin Celtic legend and history. Eoghan is usually derived from Primitive\nCeltic Eugenius 'well-born,' from which is derived Old Welsh Euguein which\nlater became Middle Welsh Ewein, Ywein, whence modern Welsh Owain, Owen.\n\nBravo, scolex. Thank you.\n\n-alga-\n\n\n\n--------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.4 ---------------\n\nFrom: Derek Bell \nSubject: Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space\nDate: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:22:08 +0100\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\nIn-Reply-To: Your message of \"Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:50:38 EDT.\"\n <199807180352.UAA19972 at lists1.best.com>\n\nIn message <199807180352.UAA19972 at lists1.best.com>, \"William H. Ansley\" writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I have a nagging idea that the phrase \"the Country of Friends\" occurs\nelsewhere in Wolfe and I have seen it recently in my rereading. If I find\nthe reference, I will certainly post." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think it's in the short story _Feather Tigers_, IIRC. It\noccurs in the dialog between the main protagonist and the sky(space?)\nyacht.\n\nDerek\n\n\n--------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.5 ---------------\n\nFrom: raster at highfiber.com (Charles Dye)\nSubject: Re: Claudius\nDate: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:36:57 -0600 (MDT)\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n\nCRCulver at aol.com writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Alex:\n< Has there been any discussion on the list (sorry, I'm new and haven't had\ntime to exhaustively browse the archives) of similarities between Severian and\nClaudius, both the historical emperor and the charming narrator of the two\nRobert Graves novels?>" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The point that comes to mind first is that both Claudius and Severian plan to\nwrite a manuscript they believe no one will read and get rid of it in a lead\ncoffer." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The dead giveaway, for me anyhow, was the scene where Severian produces one\nof 'his' aes in the era of Typhon:\n\n He examined it, bit it, and gave it back to me. \"Gold all right.\n Looks a trifle like you, 'cept he seems to have got himself cut up.\n Don't suppose you noticed.\"\n\n \"No,\" I said. \"I never thought of it.\"\n\n Hadelin nodded and pushed back his chair. \"A man doesn't shave himself\n sidewise. See you in the morning, sieur, madame.\"\n\nCompare with a scene from \"Claudius the God\" chapter 6 :\n\n It pleased my vanity to have my head on the coins.... Portraits on\n coins, however, are always disappointing because they are executed in\n profile, and it comes as a shock, when one sees it in a portrait, that\n one really looks like that to people standing beside one. For one's\n full face, because of the familiarity that mirrors give it, a certain\n toleration and even affection is felt; but I must say that when I first\n saw the model that the mint-masters were striking for me I grew angry\n and asked whether it was intended to be a caricature.\n\nRobert Graves once did a translation of \"The Lives of the Twelve Caesars\"\nin which each Emperor's chapter was illustrated with the appropriate aureus.\n\nraster at highfiber.com\n\n\n\n--------------- END urth.v017.n005 ---------------" } ] } ] }