# unsuscribe- Digest urth.v017.n005 *The Urth list — 1 messages, 1 voices, 19 Jul 1998* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Internet Megantic *19 Jul 1998, 17:32* > At 21:10 18-07-98 -0700, you wrote: > > -------------- BEGIN urth.v017.n005 -------------- > > 001 - "William H. Ansley" 002 - "Robert Borski" 003 - "Alice Turner" 004 - Derek Bell 005 - raster at highfiber.com (Cha - Re: Claudius > > URTH Digest -- for discussion of Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works > > > --------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.1 --------------- > > From: "William H. Ansley" > Subject: Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:50:38 -0400 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > In-Reply-To: <199807180216.TAA14355 at lists1.best.com> >> One of the more puzzling names in THE FIFTH HEAD OF CERBERUS to be sourced >> is the Country of Friends. It's cited by the abos as the possible homeport >> of the star-faring Homo sapiens pangalacticus, who've traveled to Saint >> Anne in the distant past, and mentioned in the same breath as Atlantis and >> Gondwanaland. >> >> I'm now speculating it relates to the Aztecs. >> >> This is because Texas--where Gene Wolfe grew up--is derived from the Indian >> word "texia," meaning "friends." And since Texas was once part of Mexico, >> it's possible the Country of Friends generally refers to Aztecan >> civilization. > I like this too. > > I have a nagging idea that the phrase "the Country of Friends" occurs > elsewhere in Wolfe and I have seen it recently in my rereading. If I find > the reference, I will certainly post. > > William Ansley > > > > > --------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.2 --------------- > > From: "Robert Borski" > Subject: Sanderson's Abandonment > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:26:00 -0500 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Earlier, in regards to my Continuing Westward post, Sean Whalen (aka prion) > wrote: > > "This seems to fit, but how does it fit in that he originally thought > that she stabbed Sanderson? He didn't just decide to leave him, he > thought that he was dead." > > This may relate to some aspect of a Kipling short story (The Phantom > Rickshaw?), but I'm not sure--it's been 30+ years since I read SOLDIERS > THREE and the other collections. Or it may be simple irony. Paris, the > Great Seducer, undone by his own lust (whereas the Paris of legend stakes a > claim to the most beautiful woman in the world and precipitates a war). > > Of course, all of the Homeric correspondences are rather loosely clumped > together--hence the notion of Greek Odysseus and Trojan Paris as > shipmates--so the search for parallels my be intriniscally flawed to begin > with, at least if we expect 100% fidelity with the Illiad/Odyssey. > > Also, what I forgot to mention in my Cherry Jubilee piece is that KGB agent > Vera Oussenko, who, as you mention, is arrested, represents truth, which > she is seeking, even though she gets it wrong (Vera = veritas), only in the > inverted value system of CJ she's "punished"--not being allowed to > disembark, she's spared the hell of Mars. > > Robert Borski > > > > > > --------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.3 --------------- > > From: "Alice Turner" > Subject: Re: Digest urth.v017.n004 > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 03:16:27 -0400 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >> Don't know if this has been brought up before, but if Owen/Ouen is >> considered to be the Welsh/Celtic equivalent of Eugene, doesn't that mean >> Sev's father might also be called Gene? > From the Oxford book of English Christian names: > > OWEN: a common Welsh name; in Middle English romances often spelled Owain, > Owayne, Ywain. It has been supposed to be derived from Latin Eugenius...see > Ewan. (Ouen) > > EWEN: this name, now confined to Scotland, was once common in England...It > is probably the same as Irish and Gaelic Eoghan 'a youth,' which is frequent > in Celtic legend and history. Eoghan is usually derived from Primitive > Celtic Eugenius 'well-born,' from which is derived Old Welsh Euguein which > later became Middle Welsh Ewein, Ywein, whence modern Welsh Owain, Owen. > > Bravo, scolex. Thank you. > > -alga- > > > > --------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.4 --------------- > > From: Derek Bell > Subject: Re: (urth) Sev's Dad; Aztecs in Space > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:22:08 +0100 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:50:38 EDT." > <199807180352.UAA19972 at lists1.best.com> > > In message <199807180352.UAA19972 at lists1.best.com>, "William H. Ansley" writes: >> I have a nagging idea that the phrase "the Country of Friends" occurs >> elsewhere in Wolfe and I have seen it recently in my rereading. If I find >> the reference, I will certainly post. > I think it's in the short story _Feather Tigers_, IIRC. It > occurs in the dialog between the main protagonist and the sky(space?) > yacht. > > Derek > > > --------------- MESSAGE urth.v017.n005.5 --------------- > > From: raster at highfiber.com (Charles Dye) > Subject: Re: Claudius > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:36:57 -0600 (MDT) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > CRCulver at aol.com writes: >> Alex: >> < Has there been any discussion on the list (sorry, I'm new and haven't had >> time to exhaustively browse the archives) of similarities between Severian and >> Claudius, both the historical emperor and the charming narrator of the two >> Robert Graves novels?> >> The point that comes to mind first is that both Claudius and Severian plan to >> write a manuscript they believe no one will read and get rid of it in a lead >> coffer. > The dead giveaway, for me anyhow, was the scene where Severian produces one > of 'his' aes in the era of Typhon: > > He examined it, bit it, and gave it back to me. "Gold all right. > Looks a trifle like you, 'cept he seems to have got himself cut up. > Don't suppose you noticed." > > "No," I said. "I never thought of it." > > Hadelin nodded and pushed back his chair. "A man doesn't shave himself > sidewise. See you in the morning, sieur, madame." > > Compare with a scene from "Claudius the God" chapter 6 : > > It pleased my vanity to have my head on the coins.... Portraits on > coins, however, are always disappointing because they are executed in > profile, and it comes as a shock, when one sees it in a portrait, that > one really looks like that to people standing beside one. For one's > full face, because of the familiarity that mirrors give it, a certain > toleration and even affection is felt; but I must say that when I first > saw the model that the mint-masters were striking for me I grew angry > and asked whether it was intended to be a caricature. > > Robert Graves once did a translation of "The Lives of the Twelve Caesars" > in which each Emperor's chapter was illustrated with the appropriate aureus. > > raster at highfiber.com > > > > --------------- END urth.v017.n005 --------------- ---