{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1053", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1053, "subject": "Wolfe and readers", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-08-20T16:23:00+00:00", "last": "1998-08-25T17:42:52+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1998-08-20T16:23:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe and readers", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan,\n\nRe: \"The Books in THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN,\" yes, that is an important\npiece (collected in PLAN[E]T ENGINEERING, published by NESFA, and\nrather hard to find), but to my mind it leads to an interesting new\ntopic (or rehash) on Wolfe and his readers.\n\nTo begin: \"The Books in THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN\" purports to reveal\ncertain quiet mysteries in TBOTNS in a very matter of fact sort of\nway; like the Purloined Letter, the facts were in front of you (Every\nReader) the whole time; sadly, you were so flummuxed by the baroque\ntrappings of Urth you didn't even notice there was a mystery, let\nalone begin an attempt to solve it.\n\nThere is a similar tidbit in CASTLE OF THE OTTER, where Wolfe starts\nto sketch the connections linking Dorcas to Severian by way of the\ncloisonne shop she worked in and the enameled pictures within the\nholy book he fetched for Thecla--then Wolfe stops in order to leave\nthe task for you to do.\n\nPredictably, the Wolfe-mask revealed in these two examples provokes\ndifferent reactions in different readers.\n\nThat Wolfe is a trickster can be agreed upon by all, I'm sure. But\nthere are some readers who feel that the adversarial angle is very\nstrong--to these people, Wolfe is \"cheating\" in his fiction in order\nto overawe the audience, and the Wolfe-mask shown above strikes them\nas finally, conclusively, tipping the hand to reveal the fraud; to\nshow what a subjective, solipsistic sham all literary criticism is.\n(Similar to the unmasking of the Wizard of Oz.)\n\nBecause it isn't nice to tell the Reader that she is stupid for\nhaving missed something \"so obvious\" when it wasn't really \"obvious\"\nat all. And it isn't nice to invite people to interpret Rorschach\nink blots, extolling them to elaborate further and further, if your\ngoal (perhaps secret) is to trick and humiliate the participants by\nrevealing what the inkblots \"really are.\"\n\nIt is mean behavior. It is bullying.\n\nSome readers might give a little more credit and say that Wolfe is\nhighlighting these two points (re: books and enamel) because these\nare in fact the only two real points of craftmanship there are, and\nbecause they are so dizzying it tricks you (Every Reader) into\nthinking that the whole Urth Cycle must be full of similar wonders.\n\nIt is sly behavior. It is bluffing.\n\nBut still--those readers who fall for this stuff are obviously dupes.\nWandering in the hopeless labyrinths of a mean and laughing Wolfe.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1998-08-25T10:57:38+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Wolfe and readers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 20 Aug 1998 m.driussi at genie.com wrote:\nThat Wolfe is a trickster can be agreed upon by all, I'm sure. But\nthere are some readers who feel that the adversarial angle is very\nstrong--to these people, Wolfe is \"cheating\" in his fiction in order\nto overawe the audience, and the Wolfe-mask shown above strikes them\nas finally, conclusively, tipping the hand to reveal the fraud; to\nshow what a subjective, solipsistic sham all literary criticism is.\n(Similar to the unmasking of the Wizard of Oz.)\n\nBecause it isn't nice to tell the Reader that she is stupid for\nhaving missed something \"so obvious\" when it wasn't really \"obvious\"\nat all. And it isn't nice to invite people to interpret Rorschach\nink blots, extolling them to elaborate further and further, if your\ngoal (perhaps secret) is to trick and humiliate the participants by\nrevealing what the inkblots \"really are.\"\n\nIt is mean behavior. It is bullying." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\"Be mean, Gene! I'm a careless reader, and I must be punished!\"\n\nAs long as people are reading Wolfe consensually, what's the problem?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Some readers might give a little more credit and say that Wolfe is\nhighlighting these two points (re: books and enamel) because these\nare in fact the only two real points of craftmanship there are, and\nbecause they are so dizzying it tricks you (Every Reader) into\nthinking that the whole Urth Cycle must be full of similar wonders.\n\nIt is sly behavior. It is bluffing.\n\nBut still--those readers who fall for this stuff are obviously dupes.\nWandering in the hopeless labyrinths of a mean and laughing Wolfe." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wheels within wheels. Read Eco's FOUCAULT'S PENDULUM to see why, if Wolfe\ntold us the answers, we wouldn't be satisfied. We want more mysteries,\nnot answers. \n\nAny critic worth his citations knows that a novel will have meanings\nregardless of the author's intent. If Wolfe thinks he can fool people by\nwriting books with mysteries having no answers, he's only fooling himself. \nThe answers will be there whether he knows it or not. \n\nI don't know that I believe anything I've just written here. \n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Derek Bell", "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie" }, "date": "1998-08-25T17:42:52+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Wolfe and readers", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In message <199808201631.JAA25195 at lists1.best.com>, m.driussi at genie.com writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That Wolfe is a trickster can be agreed upon by all, I'm sure." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tIn other words, there's a lot of Coyote in Wolfe? ;-)\n\n\tDerek" } ] } ] }