{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1070", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1070, "subject": "Hierodules and Sev and Time", "messages": 2, "voices": 1, "first": "1998-08-30T15:11:23+00:00", "last": "1998-08-30T15:11:23+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jon Camfield", "address": "griffjon at mail.utexas.edu" }, "date": "1998-08-30T15:11:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Hierodules and Sev and Time", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In Urth of the New Sun, Severian meets Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus >for what is apparently his last time, and their first. However, as much >sense as that may make, it seems to be contradicted just as Severian and >Burgundofora are about to exit the Ship, in the \"hall made for crying,\" >when the three Hierodules appear again! " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I took this (and their appearance in the time of Apu-Punchau, as well) as\ntime perception vs. time reality. Sev met the three for his first time at\nBaldander's Castle, and since the Hierodules see that Sev does not know\nthem, but they him, they believe that this will be the last time (for them)\nto meet with Sev. (I here refer to time relatively, not absolutely. The\nfirst time Sev remembers meeting them)\n\nSeverian then meets them for the first time, Hierodule time, on the\nTzadkiel, which is travelling between times quite a bit. When the Tzadkiel\nreturns to Urth, it is at a point in time for the Hierodules (who must have\ngotten separated from Severian's time-flow) in the future from their first\nmeeting with Severian, as it is in the past history of Urth.\n\nWe see this mismatch again when the Hierodules 'rescue' Severian from his\npeople when he is Apu-Punchau. It is a point in time in the future of the\nHierodules from when they (mistakenly) perceived their last meeting with Sev\nto be, because it is (absolutely) a point in time before the rest of Sev's\nlife, though further down the line in his personal timeline.\n\nJust a bit complicated, huh?\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nJon Camfield \"GriffJon\" |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program:\ngriffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2\nGriffJon at mail.utexas.edu |Webmaster, Broccoli Project:\n | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj\nHomepage, Gallery, Resume: |Channel Manager, Undernet #Poetry\n ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~griffjon | www.tripod.com/~ircpoetry\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible\"\n-- Albert Einstein" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jon Camfield", "address": "griffjon at mail.utexas.edu" }, "date": "1998-08-30T15:11:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Hierodules and Sev and Time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "In Urth of the New Sun, Severian meets Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus >for what is apparently his last time, and their first. However, as much >sense as that may make, it seems to be contradicted just as Severian and >Burgundofora are about to exit the Ship, in the \"hall made for crying,\" >when the three Hierodules appear again! " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I took this (and their appearance in the time of Apu-Punchau, as well) as\ntime perception vs. time reality. Sev met the three for his first time at\nBaldander's Castle, and since the Hierodules see that Sev does not know\nthem, but they him, they believe that this will be the last time (for them)\nto meet with Sev. (I here refer to time relatively, not absolutely. The\nfirst time Sev remembers meeting them)\n\nSeverian then meets them for the first time, Hierodule time, on the\nTzadkiel, which is travelling between times quite a bit. When the Tzadkiel\nreturns to Urth, it is at a point in time for the Hierodules (who must have\ngotten separated from Severian's time-flow) in the future from their first\nmeeting with Severian, as it is in the past history of Urth.\n\nWe see this mismatch again when the Hierodules 'rescue' Severian from his\npeople when he is Apu-Punchau. It is a point in time in the future of the\nHierodules from when they (mistakenly) perceived their last meeting with Sev\nto be, because it is (absolutely) a point in time before the rest of Sev's\nlife, though further down the line in his personal timeline.\n\nJust a bit complicated, huh?\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------\nJon Camfield \"GriffJon\" |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program:\ngriffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2\nGriffJon at mail.utexas.edu |Webmaster, Broccoli Project:\n | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj\nHomepage, Gallery, Resume: |Channel Manager, Undernet #Poetry\n ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~griffjon | www.tripod.com/~ircpoetry\n------------------------------------------------------------------\n\"The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible\"\n-- Albert Einstein" } ] } ] }