# Hierodules and Sev and Time *The Urth list — 2 messages, 1 voices, 30 Aug 1998* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Jon Camfield *30 Aug 1998, 15:11* > In Urth of the New Sun, Severian meets Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus >for what is apparently his last time, and their first. However, as much >sense as that may make, it seems to be contradicted just as Severian and >Burgundofora are about to exit the Ship, in the "hall made for crying," >when the three Hierodules appear again! I took this (and their appearance in the time of Apu-Punchau, as well) as time perception vs. time reality. Sev met the three for his first time at Baldander's Castle, and since the Hierodules see that Sev does not know them, but they him, they believe that this will be the last time (for them) to meet with Sev. (I here refer to time relatively, not absolutely. The first time Sev remembers meeting them) Severian then meets them for the first time, Hierodule time, on the Tzadkiel, which is travelling between times quite a bit. When the Tzadkiel returns to Urth, it is at a point in time for the Hierodules (who must have gotten separated from Severian's time-flow) in the future from their first meeting with Severian, as it is in the past history of Urth. We see this mismatch again when the Hierodules 'rescue' Severian from his people when he is Apu-Punchau. It is a point in time in the future of the Hierodules from when they (mistakenly) perceived their last meeting with Sev to be, because it is (absolutely) a point in time before the rest of Sev's life, though further down the line in his personal timeline. Just a bit complicated, huh? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Camfield "GriffJon" |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program: griffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2 GriffJon at mail.utexas.edu |Webmaster, Broccoli Project: | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj Homepage, Gallery, Resume: |Channel Manager, Undernet #Poetry ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~griffjon | www.tripod.com/~ircpoetry ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible" -- Albert Einstein --- ### Jon Camfield *30 Aug 1998, 15:11 · follows Jon Camfield* > In Urth of the New Sun, Severian meets Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus >for what is apparently his last time, and their first. However, as much >sense as that may make, it seems to be contradicted just as Severian and >Burgundofora are about to exit the Ship, in the "hall made for crying," >when the three Hierodules appear again! I took this (and their appearance in the time of Apu-Punchau, as well) as time perception vs. time reality. Sev met the three for his first time at Baldander's Castle, and since the Hierodules see that Sev does not know them, but they him, they believe that this will be the last time (for them) to meet with Sev. (I here refer to time relatively, not absolutely. The first time Sev remembers meeting them) Severian then meets them for the first time, Hierodule time, on the Tzadkiel, which is travelling between times quite a bit. When the Tzadkiel returns to Urth, it is at a point in time for the Hierodules (who must have gotten separated from Severian's time-flow) in the future from their first meeting with Severian, as it is in the past history of Urth. We see this mismatch again when the Hierodules 'rescue' Severian from his people when he is Apu-Punchau. It is a point in time in the future of the Hierodules from when they (mistakenly) perceived their last meeting with Sev to be, because it is (absolutely) a point in time before the rest of Sev's life, though further down the line in his personal timeline. Just a bit complicated, huh? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Camfield "GriffJon" |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program: griffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2 GriffJon at mail.utexas.edu |Webmaster, Broccoli Project: | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj Homepage, Gallery, Resume: |Channel Manager, Undernet #Poetry ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~griffjon | www.tripod.com/~ircpoetry ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible" -- Albert Einstein ---