Hierodules and Sev and Time
The Urth list — 2 messages, 1 voices, 30 Aug 1998
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1070

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Jon Camfield — 30 Aug 1998, 15:11

> In Urth of the New Sun, Severian meets Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus >for what is apparently his last time, and their first.  However, as much >sense as that may make, it seems to be contradicted just as Severian and >Burgundofora are about to exit the Ship, in the "hall made for crying," >when the three Hierodules appear again!  

I took this (and their appearance in the time of Apu-Punchau, as well) as
time perception vs. time reality.  Sev met the three for his first time at
Baldander's Castle, and since the Hierodules see that Sev does not know
them, but they him, they believe that this will be the last time (for them)
to meet with Sev.  (I here refer to time relatively, not absolutely.  The
first time Sev remembers meeting them)

Severian then meets them for the first time, Hierodule time, on the
Tzadkiel, which is travelling between times quite a bit.  When the Tzadkiel
returns to Urth, it is at a point in time for the Hierodules (who must have
gotten separated from Severian's time-flow) in the future from their first
meeting with Severian, as it is in the past history of Urth.

We see this mismatch again when the Hierodules 'rescue' Severian from his
people when he is Apu-Punchau. It is a point in time in the future of the
Hierodules from when they (mistakenly) perceived their last meeting with Sev
to be, because it is (absolutely) a point in time before the rest of Sev's
life, though further down the line in his personal timeline.

Just a bit complicated, huh?

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Jon Camfield      "GriffJon"  |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program:
griffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu   | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2
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                              | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj
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"The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible"
-- Albert Einstein

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Jon Camfield — 30 Aug 1998, 15:11
  follows, by subject match Jon Camfield

> In Urth of the New Sun, Severian meets Ossipago, Barbatus and Famulimus >for what is apparently his last time, and their first.  However, as much >sense as that may make, it seems to be contradicted just as Severian and >Burgundofora are about to exit the Ship, in the "hall made for crying," >when the three Hierodules appear again!  

I took this (and their appearance in the time of Apu-Punchau, as well) as
time perception vs. time reality.  Sev met the three for his first time at
Baldander's Castle, and since the Hierodules see that Sev does not know
them, but they him, they believe that this will be the last time (for them)
to meet with Sev.  (I here refer to time relatively, not absolutely.  The
first time Sev remembers meeting them)

Severian then meets them for the first time, Hierodule time, on the
Tzadkiel, which is travelling between times quite a bit.  When the Tzadkiel
returns to Urth, it is at a point in time for the Hierodules (who must have
gotten separated from Severian's time-flow) in the future from their first
meeting with Severian, as it is in the past history of Urth.

We see this mismatch again when the Hierodules 'rescue' Severian from his
people when he is Apu-Punchau. It is a point in time in the future of the
Hierodules from when they (mistakenly) perceived their last meeting with Sev
to be, because it is (absolutely) a point in time before the rest of Sev's
life, though further down the line in his personal timeline.

Just a bit complicated, huh?

------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Camfield      "GriffJon"  |Webmaster, Plan II Honors Program:
griffjon at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu   | www.dla.utexas.edu/~plan2
GriffJon at mail.utexas.edu      |Webmaster, Broccoli Project:
                              | www.utexas.edu/students/brocproj
Homepage, Gallery, Resume:    |Channel Manager, Undernet #Poetry
 ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~griffjon | www.tripod.com/~ircpoetry
------------------------------------------------------------------
"The most incomprehensible fact about nature is that it is comprehensible"
-- Albert Einstein

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