# Relative vs. Absolute time, cont'd

*The Urth list — 3 messages, 3 voices, 01 Sep 1998*

<https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1074>

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### Tony A. West
*01 Sep 1998, 07:52*

ANYWAY, I
came to that conclusion about the Tzadkiel being the most likely candidate
for the eclipse while mapping out this whole relative vs. absolute time
mess.  I've come up with some very interesting little "maps," though!
Severian did tell all to OB&F in the House of Day, so of course they knew
they must do something to create such an eclipse in their future.

I'll tell you, though, their TWO "first" meetings on the Tzadkiel have been
bugging me all day!  Both meetings are treated as first meetings; the one in
Severian's stateroom at the beginning of the book, and the one when the
Tzadkiel has returned close to Typhon-era Urth.  At the later meeting,
Famulimus says to Severian, "tell me we'll meet again," or something to that
effect, to which Severian replies "many times."  Now, in terms of relative
time, this would seem to be their first meeting (for OB&F), the Apu-Punchau
sequence excluded.  But in terms of absolute time, they would have met
before since the time is far before Severian's birth.   So that's eliminated
and we're left with relative time...  Which immediately leads us to the
problem of the meeting in the stateroom, which then would not have been
OB&F's first encounter with Severian, as they indeed indicate it is.  What
are your thoughts?

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### John Gersten
*01 Sep 1998, 08:09 · follows Tony A. West*

> On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Tony A. West wrote:
> ANYWAY, I
> came to that conclusion about the Tzadkiel being the most likely candidate
> for the eclipse while mapping out this whole relative vs. absolute time
> mess.  I've come up with some very interesting little "maps," though!
> Severian did tell all to OB&F in the House of Day, so of course they knew
> they must do something to create such an eclipse in their future.

I don't have the books in front of me, but wasn't Tzadkiel's ship unable
to come inside the planetary orbits (i.e., close to the Sun?)  Or was that
just "under ordinary circumstances?"  (I thought that was why Severian and
Burgundofara had to use the tender to come to Urth, in addition to
Tzad's ship obviously being unable to land).

John

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### Peter Westlake
*01 Sep 1998, 15:22 · follows John Gersten*

> At 08:09 1998-09-01 -0700, John Gersten wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Sep 1998, Tony A. West wrote:

>> ANYWAY, I
>> came to that conclusion about the Tzadkiel being the most likely candidate
>> for the eclipse while mapping out this whole relative vs. absolute time
>> mess.  I've come up with some very interesting little "maps," though!
>> Severian did tell all to OB&F in the House of Day, so of course they knew
>> they must do something to create such an eclipse in their future.

> I don't have the books in front of me, but wasn't Tzadkiel's ship unable
> to come inside the planetary orbits (i.e., close to the Sun?)  Or was that
> just "under ordinary circumstances?"  (I thought that was why Severian and
> Burgundofara had to use the tender to come to Urth, in addition to
> Tzad's ship obviously being unable to land).

It didn't normally come inside planetary orbits precisely because it
might block someone's light, i.e. cause an eclipse.

Peter.

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