Subject: (urth) Hierodules

From: m.driussi <m.driussi at genie.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 13:52:00 +0000

Mark Millman,

Good summary of the possibilities.

Interesting how native lifespan figures into time travellers: OB&F
(dog lifespan); Inire (past his years); Father Thyme (physically ages
as he travels); Master Ash (hint of Thyme as he walks to answer the
door--Severian hears old footsteps growing young and virile).

In thinking about the odd trinity of OB&F, working off the idea of
B&F being children and/or larvae, and assuming that once they are
grown up O will leave them as two, a couple--then I wonder about Adam
and Eve, and the naked couple dropped of by Hierodules in the play as
well as (repeatedly?) in the reality.  (Re-seeding the fairie, as it
were.)

Or do they just grow up into those silent giant statues that roam the
gardens of the House Absolute?  They are certainly alike in terms of
angelic beauty.

=mantis=

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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From: John Gersten <jgersten at slip.net>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 08:28:18 +0000

> door--Severian hears old footsteps growing young and virile).

With regard to OB&F, I've often wondered about their experience of time
generally.  I had the impression that they actually lived time "backwards"
with reference to Severian's (and everyone else's) motion through time,
and only "switched around" briefly (perhaps with Ossipago's help?) to
match Severian's time-direction when they needed to interact with him.

Are B&F born in the future?  Do they then "age" as they pass backward in
time (from Sev's point of view)?  This would seem to be the case.  But
then how can they interact, even briefly, with people whose physiological
and neurological processes are, time-wise, working backward from their
own?  Perhaps they use artificial means to briefly sort of "snap"
themselves around to Sev's time-arrow direction?  Or am I just
overcomplicating things (in a Wolfe book?!? <g>)?
 
> gardens of the House Absolute?  They are certainly alike in terms of

Or are the statues perhaps proto-larval forms that miss getting animated
with a spark of individual soul?  For whose benefit exactly are they
prowling the environs of the HA?

John

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From: CRCulver <crculver at aol.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 21:27:13 +0000

Mantis said:
<Or do they just grow up into those silent giant statues that roam the
gardens of the House Absolute?>

I thought  it was pretty well established that those are electronic
surveillance devices that Inire uses to monitor the grounds of the House
Absolute. I'm sure they are referred to as "Father Inire's pets," or "Father
Inire's eyes" somewhere in the BotNS.

And he pondered:
< I wonder about Adam and Eve, and the naked couple dropped of by Hierodules
in the play as well as (repeatedly?) in the reality.  (Re-seeding the fairie,
as it
were.)>

I always used to assume that those people were Hierodules, but not necessarily
Famulimus and Barbatus. I must comment here, however, that the point of
reseeding Urth and giving it back sentient life is so that *humanity* will be
able to create the Hierodules, since there was the chance it was the right
Sefiroth at the right time. So, the people dropped in the Garden of the HA are
human.
The hypothesis lately has been raised that the Meschia and Meschiane of Ushas
are actually sailors from the Ship Tzadkiel, but I'm not yet convinced.

Christopher R. Culver <crculver at aol.com>
http://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html