{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1120", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1120, "subject": "Eclipse question", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-10-02T05:38:37+00:00", "last": "1998-10-03T01:58:44+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "marc", "address": "marc at continuumsi.com" }, "date": "1998-10-02T05:38:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Eclipse question", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "OK, the \"obvious\" guess for what caused Apu-Punchau's eclipse\nis the ship. But, why would Tzadkiel bother to help Severian\nin such a situation? Remember, Severian has already brought\nthe New Sun, and therefore has already insured the continuation\nof the next cycle... I could understand why Zak, Juturna, the\nGreen Man, etc. would interfere in Severian's past prior to\nSeverian's examination, but it seems pointless to interfere\nafter Severian's role is complete (unless Severian has some\nadditional destiny after UotNS that Gene Wolfe hasn't written\nabout yet... Possibly in a short-sun connection).\n\nIn fact, given that Apu-Punchau's people end up killing and\nentombing him anyway, and given that he's resurrected by the\ncoming of the New Sun, the whole eclipse thing seems kind of\npointless. Unless Apu-Punchau's leadership is itself one of\nthe driving factors in his people's development that eventually\nplays itself out in their future history/evolution to New Sun\ntimes... Any thoughts?\n\nOn an unrelated not, it seems clear that Pas is the avatar of\nTyphon/Piaton (unless there are other two-headed all-powerful\nmonarchs floating around capable of building generation ships).\nBut Pas seems to be a mostly benevolent figure, at least compared\nto Echidna, Scylla, etc... Whereas, Typhon was clearly a bastard...\nGuess you'd have to chalk that one up to programmer's error, heh.\n\n-Marc" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mary whalen", "address": "marewhalen at yahoo.com" }, "date": "1998-10-02T13:59:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Eclipse Question", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sean Whalen (prion).\n\nOne aspect of Severian's rule as Apu that Tzadkiel might have decided\nwas needed was his giving of more advanced technology to his\nworshippers (such as better building techniques).\n\nAlso, it would be material for the legends of later people, and\nperhaps Tzadkiel wants that to exist, too.\n\nprion" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "CRCulver", "address": "crculver at aol.com" }, "date": "1998-10-03T01:58:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Eclipse question", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc wrote:\n\n\nI don't think it was just Tzadkiel. Severian did have some friends on the\nship, especially Gunnie. And perhaps the sailors wanted to repay him for the\nhelp in the fight against the muties. And there is always Famulimus, Ossipago,\nand Barbatus...\n\n\n\nScylla mentions that the builder of the Whorl was Typhon the First, but not\nnecessarily the Typhon of the Conciliator era. As a matter of fact, I'm\nuncovering more daily that Pas is not Severian's Typhon, but I shall post\nthose conclusions to the Whorl list when I am ready.\n\n\nChristopher R. Culver \nhttp://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html" } ] } ] }