{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1124",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1124,
    "subject": "Sev's Sister",
    "messages": 3,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "1998-10-02T18:48:29+00:00",
    "last": "1998-10-05T18:29:04+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0019-0040@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Robert Borski",
        "address": "rborski at coredcs.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-10-02T18:48:29+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Sev's Sister",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Time for me to add my speculations to the mix, since, to the best of my\nknowledge, no one's yet mentioned the woman I think is Sev's sister. \n\nI believe we meet her early, in SHADOW (Chapter IX).\n\nShe's the khaibit known as Barbea and she works out of the House Azure in\nthe Echopraxia.\n\nBarbea, it appears, resembles what we know of Severian. She is tall,\nstraight-nosed, has limpid eyes, and could be wearing a wig made of gold\n(so her hair may actually be dark).\n\nSeverian judges her to be no older than 17; Severian appears to be\nsimilarly aged.\n\nBarbea is a pseudonym; we never learn the khabit's real name, so it could\nbe Severa.\n\n\"Echopraxia\" suggests duplication, an echoing of the original: a twinning\nof sorts. Barbea also has another putative twin in \"Chateleine Gracia\"--or\nso Severian observes, even going so far as to claim the two might be the\nsame--just wearing different makeup.\n\nSaint Barbea is always associated with her brother Sarbelius in\nhagiographic literature. The bea/-belius endings suggest the ian/a ending\nof Severa/Severian. Both Barbea and Sarbelius were tortured before being\nexecuted.\n\nWitches often service the torturers in at least their first sexual\nencounters (Master Gurloes lost his virginity this way) and according to\nthe LEXICON URTHUS, they're somewhat wanton in their ways. The witches'\npatron saint is Saint Mag, short for Magdalen, the prostitute of the New\nTestament. So it's not that big a leap to connect Severa with prostitution.\nThis being Severian's first sexual encounter also connects.\n\nSeverian will soon be offered the choice of whether he wishes to stay in\nthe guild or leave. I speculate Severa/Barbea has been offered the same\ndeal with the Witches' Guild, but has chosen to leave. Women maturing\nearlier than men, she may have left the Guild a year or two before Severian\nfirst encounters her, but unable to find work has opted to become a khaibit\nin the House Absolute, while moonlighting as a prostitute in the House\nAzure.\n\nLastly then, there's this quote from Severian himself:\n\n\"There was something in the eyes of both women [Barbea, Gracia], in the\nexpression of their mouths, their carriage and the fluididity of their\ngestures, that was one. It recalled something I had seen elsewhere (I could\nnot remember where), and earlier, yet it was new, and I felt somehow that\nthe other thing, that which I had known earlier, was to be preferred.\"\n\nThe most interesting thing about the quote occurs in parentheses--\"*I could\nnot remember when*\"--which seems like a damn strange thing to say when\nyou're always bragging about having total recall. But what if these\nmemories predate the acquisition of a suitably developed storage\nsystem--one that's based on emotion and instinct, not acquired learning?\nSeverian has seen his sister before for nine months prenatally, if not at\ntheir joint births; Mom, too, he must have seen at parturition. But if his\nbrain hasn't developed enough mentally, he has no optimal storage nook for\nmemories of either--he lacks a suitable filing system in other words and so\nthese foundation-less memories of Mom and Sis go into a general bin,\nunavailable for recall by ordinary means, but still there.\n\nSeverian, seeing Severa, recognizes in her the eidetic ghost of their\nmother; she looks familiar, yet is new. He recalls--if inchoately--his\nmother and it's the emotional warmth of this (for what newborn infant does\nnot love his mother) that leads him to prefer it.\n\nRobert Borski\n\n "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0019-0042@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "CRCulver",
        "address": "crculver at aol.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-10-03T02:06:10+00:00",
      "subject": "Re:  (urth) Sev's Sister",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0019-0040@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Robert Borski said:\n<Time for me to add my speculations to the mix, since, to the best of my\nknowledge, no one's yet mentioned the woman I think is Sev's sister. \nI believe we meet her early, in SHADOW (Chapter IX). She's the khaibit known\nas Barbea <snip>\n\n\nWell, Robert, you've certainly looked into this deeply, and I think your\ntheory is sound, but I don't like the ramifications. If Merryn is not\nSeverian's sister, then what will happen in the Book of the Short Sun? Looks\nto me like we're going to see another one of Severian's notorious one night\nstands.\n\nAnyway, the postitutes of the House Azure are khaibits. Are we then to assume\nthat Severian is a khaibit too? I dunno, I think the list is going to have a\nlot of different opinions on this one.\n\nChristopher R. Culver <crculver at aol.com>\nhttp://members.aol.com/crculver/index.html\n------------------------------------------------"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0019-0050@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Mark Millman",
        "address": "mark_millman at hmco.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-10-05T18:29:04+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Sev's Sister",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0019-0042@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "On 2 October at 11:48 pm GMT, Robert Borski said:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Severian will soon be offered the choice\nof whether he wishes to stay in the guild\nor leave. I speculate Severa/Barbea has\nbeen offered the same deal with the\nWitches' Guild, but has chosen to leave.\nWomen maturing earlier than men, she\nmay have left the Guild a year or two before\nSeverian first encounters her, but unable to\nfind work has opted to become a khaibit in\nthe House Absolute, while moonlighting as\na prostitute in the House Azure."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "To which Christopher R. Culver, on 3 October at 2:06 am\nGMT, replied:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Anyway, the postitutes of the House Azure\nare khaibits. Are we then to assume that\nSeverian is a khaibit too? I dunno, I think\nthe list is going to have a lot of different\nopinions on this one."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "And Kieran Mullen, on 5 October at 1:25 am GMT added:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "All of the women at the Echopraxie are\nkhaibits, duplicates of exultants."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Robert, I have to agree.  Khaibits are grown, not hired.\nRemember, the exultant women use the khaibits' blood\nto keep themselves young; the implication is that they\nmust be clones (or something similar), and that natural\nchildren won't do the trick.\n\nRobert also said:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"There was something in the eyes of both\nwomen [Barbea, Gracia], in the expression\nof their mouths, their carriage and the fluid-\nity of their gestures, that was one. It recalled\nsomething I had seen elsewhere (I could\nnot remember where), and earlier, yet it was\nnew, and I felt somehow that the other thing,\nthat which I had known earlier, was to be\npreferred.\"\n\nThe most interesting thing about the quote\noccurs in parentheses--\"*I could not remember\nwhen*\"--which seems like a damn strange thing\nto say when you're always bragging about\nhaving total recall. But what if these memories\npredate the acquisition of a suitably developed\nstorage system--one that's based on emotion\nand instinct, not acquired learning?  Severian\nhas seen his sister before for nine months pre-\nnatally, if not at their joint births; Mom, too, he\nmust have seen at parturition. But if his brain\nhasn't developed enough mentally, he has no\noptimal storage nook for memories of either--he\nlacks a suitable filing system in other words and\nso these foundation-less memories of Mom and\nSis go into a general bin, unavailable for recall\nby ordinary means, but still there.\n\nSeverian, seeing Severa, recognizes in her the\neidetic ghost of their mother; she looks familiar,\nyet is new. He recalls--if inchoately--his mother\nand it's the emotional warmth of this (for what\nnewborn infant does not love his mother) that\nleads him to prefer it."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "And Kieran replied:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Why can this not be an invocation of his mother\n*without* meaning that she is related to her?  Or\nmerely a reference to Thecla or Thea?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Which Robert rebutted on 5 October at 5:20 am GMT,\nsaying:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "As for Kieran Mullen's contention that \"Why can\nthis not be an invocation of his mother *without*\nmeaning that she is related to her?  Or merely\na reference to Thecla or Thea?\" Why would\nmemories of his mother be triggered by some-\none who is a non-relative? Or Thea/Thecla?\nThis the khaibit of Chateleine Barbea, after all,\nnot Thea/Thecla. And how do you explain Sev-\nerian's parenthetical \"I don't remember where\"\nsubclause?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I'm afraid that I have to concur in doubting that this line\nrefers to a deeply-buried memory of Severian's mother.\nIt could be a reference to either of the exultant women whom\nSeverian already knows.  But I think he would have been\nable to recall the similarity in that case.  We know that Sever-\nian isn't always good at fitting together puzzle pieces; I sub-\nmit that he can't place the previous experience here because\nhe's having a context failure (you've all experienced it; you\nsee someone you know well--but only in a single context, as\nfrom your health club--in an unexpected place, and say to\nyourself, \"That face is very familiar, but I have no idea why it\nshould be so\").  Severian here is thinking of Valeria, who has\nthe truly regal grace that the exultants imitate more or less\nwell; the khaibits' aping of the exultants' imitation (which, given\ntheir high status and--as a group--decades or centuries of\npractice, may well be pretty good, if not exact) is what stirs the\necho in Severian's mind.\n\nI don't, however, have any suggestions for the identity of\nSeverian's sister.  I'd point out, though, that Merryn seems\ncuriously without function in terms of plot or themes--not\ntrue of the other characters mentioned in this discussion--\nand that Severian has been known to be as obtuse as\nyou describe Merryn to be.  The name may be the result\nof witches' having use-names and true-names; the\ndesignation \"witches\" implies study or use of magic, and\nwe know that at least some magic does work on Urth, as\nSeverian's duel with Declan demonstrates.  Hiding one's\ntrue name to prevent its being used in hostile magic is a\nwidely-distributed, very ancient magical practice.\n\nMark Millman"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}