{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1142", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1142, "subject": "Mother Catherine", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-10-09T11:48:43+00:00", "last": "1998-10-09T20:15:00+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1998-10-09T11:48:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mother Catherine", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In LEXICON URTHUS, under the entry for Catherine can be read the following\ncommentary: \"she probably was a Pelerine and her reason for leaving the\norder (of 'professional virgins,' as Agia called it) may well have been the\ncarnal knowledge of Ouen and resulting pregnancy. She was probably arrested\nnot for any crime, but for the unknown Severian's protection.\"\n\nMy take on this, however, is slightly different and is based on Ouen's\ntestimony (CITADEL, Chapter 32) when Severian asks him, \"A woman you\nloved--or perhaps only one who loved you--a dark woman--was taken once?\" To\nwhich his father replies: \"Once, sieur. Yes, sieur, Catherine was her name.\nIt's an old-fashioned name name, they tell me.\" And then: \"There was\ntrouble, as you say, sieur. She'd run off from some order of monials. The\nlaw got her, and I never saw her again.\"\n\nMy read of this is that Catherine was *already* on the run when she met\nOuen, and then became pregnant in the one conjugal episode they had,\nshortly *after which* she's arrested. Given Ouen's livelihood--he's been\nworking in inns since he was ten--I find it difficult to imagine him first\nmeeting monial Catherine, then Catherine (who after all is probably an\nexultant) surrendering her virginity to a potboy/waiter. Whereas being on\nthe run, and needing a place to stay or hide out for a night, she'd\nprobably accept a berth from most anyone. And given the fact that she and\nOuen coupled only once, it also seems likely her pregnancy would only be\ndetected later, after she'd been incarcerated. (This is why I have trouble\nwith the protective custody aspect mantis suggests--I doubt the authorities\nrealize she's pregnant until well into her incarceration).\n\nAs to why she's on the run from the Pelerines, I can only speculate. She\nmay have been a slave like Winnoc who wanted her freedom or she may have\nsimply stole something from the order (the Pelerines have a fair amount of\nwealth, it seems). My pet theory, however, is that she stole the Claw--or\nmore appropriately it stole her (the same way it did Severian after the\nfiacre crash), this being the Claw's way of ensuring the Conciliator's\neventual rebirth.\n\nI also think it's fairly obvious that Valeria is Catherine's mother\n(meaning Severian has slept with both grandmothers).\n\nAs for the woman Severian sees under arrest in the Path of Air by the\nPraetorians on his return to the House Absolute (URTH, Chapter 41), this is\nthe *original* Katherine, the patron saint of the Torturers, recalled to\nhim (or perhaps revivified like the assassin in the secret passageway) by\nthe long-dead Maxentius, who's present in Severian like all the other\nautarchs. In many ways it's a completion of a cycle. (I also believe it's\npossible for us to posit Katherine may have been involved in a plot to\nassassinate Maxentius, a crime for which she'll be beheaded first\nfiguratively and then ritually for centuries to come).\n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1998-10-09T20:15:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mother Catherine", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Robert Borski,\n\nI think it was in Feeley's essay where the idea that the pelerines\nhad regular commerce with the cloisonne shop family was first raised.\nThe shop sold crucifixes; the pelerines are Red Cross girls. This was\na direction as to the how and why Catherine (formerly of the\npelerines) would end up with Ouen (formerly of the cloisonne shop).\n\nWhile I don't for a minute suppose that the pelerines would have one\nof their own sent to the Matachin Tower for any crime, let alone\nsomething as mild as breaking a vow of virginity, still, you bring up\nan interesting point that has vexed essayists for years--what crime,\nreal or suspected, would be serious enough to warrant Catherine's\nstay with the torturers? And who is issuing this warrant for her\narrest (since it can't be either the pelerines or the torturers)?\nAfter all, the prisoners therein are basically political prisoners or\nsick wackos like the woman who made furniture out of children. This\nthen is the Mystery of Catherine's Arrest.\n\n=mantis=" } ] } ] }