{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1160", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1160, "subject": "Digest urth.v019.n016", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-10-11T23:03:16+00:00", "last": "1998-10-12T11:08:46+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1998-10-11T23:03:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v019.n016", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But isn't the monial Catherine, uh, rather =short= for an exultant?\nI believe somewhere in the text it says that Thecla was Severian's\nadult height at the age of thirteen . . . and she kept growing, of\ncourse." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Catherine is the daughter of an armigette (Valeria) and an exultant\n(Caesidias), so she may be less than full exultant height. She probably\nalso has no khaibit (since I doubt her father is going to use her as a\nhostage concubine); hence no heightening or rejuvenating hormones. (Is this\nwhat you meant, SBear?)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Second larva: Why haven't we heard this from mantis? (Not that I\nautomatically reject everything you write, Robert.) Congratulations\nfrom me also." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Speaking of larvae, anyone willing to accept the notion that Famulimus and\nBarbatus are short-lived larvae, and Ossipago is the Hierodule version of\nMr. Million? I'm also leaning toward the theory that Camoena (the Cumaean)\nis the adult mother, with Merryn (who addresses her as \"Mother\" and is\ndescribed herself at least once as a \"famula\" [cf. Famulimus]) another\nlarval form. It's also possible the living statues of the House Absolute\nare an intermediate stage, either pupae or eggs.\n\nOne last question for raster on the Claw's disappearance: when and how do\nyou think the Claw winds up in Sev's sabertache? Is it after the altar\ncrash, meaning that injured Agia, with her wits still about her, limps\nover, picks up the Claw, limps back over to unconscious (or dead) Sev,\nwhereupon she puts it in in his sabertache, because she knows she's gonna\nbe eventually stripsearched by the high nun of the Pelerines? Because I've\nnever believed Agia's involvement; if she's not looking for coins as her\nbrother suggests when Sev comes to visit her and Agilus in his cell, I\nbelieve she's looking for Sev's whetstone, which she knows is in his\nsabertache. Sev also doesn't notice he has the Claw until just before the\nPelerines torch their cathedral tent, which is, what, two days after the\nfiacre crash? Leaving me still perplexed as to how and when the Claw made\nits way into Sev's possession in the first place." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "To Kieran: As for the idea that Wolfe is making use of cheap writing\nelements\nwhen he makes Severian's family the way it is, I offer this explanation:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wolfe" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "is fallible. Aren't we all?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In my opinion, cheap writing elements are much more accessible to ordinary\nfolk. Wolfe's fiction is not, and he may well have died before someone came\nalong (if ever) and figured out the various genealogical timeloops I've\nproposed (this presupposes they're right, which they may not be)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But that's a common enough experience, I'm sure everybody knows\nit--you work hard on something, send it off and wait. Years go by.\nNothing happens--the thing is lost under a rock in a deep cave in the\nmiddle of a black forest at the bottom of the ocean. It moulders\namong the boulders." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's why I post to the list, rather than submit to non-electronic media.\nI'm old and I don't care to have my work published posthumously. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Eeek! Surely there is a middle ground between run-away exegesis and\nsilence. Either extreme of censorship (on discourse or criticism) seems\nbad." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "John Clute is probably the pre-eminent sf/fantasy critic and even he's not\nimmune to wild and wooly Wolfean exegesis. Or haven't you read his essay in\nSTROKES (since disclaimed) about how Catherine and the old autarch are one\nand the same (a theory I would have been crucified for if I'd been the\nfirst to propose it)?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Hmm... interesting. Especially since the aquaestor takes on the\nrole of Master Palaemon. But isn't it stated or implied that Severian\nis the first torturer-autarch? And wouldn't there have to be an RNA\ntransfer to Appian during the period we know Palaemon is still alive?\n(Actually, do we have a date for his death?) " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Stinky the First (ne Reechy) aka Ymar the Almost Just was a torturer\nautarch. And I'm not sure what you mean by a RNA transfer (especially since\nin all likelihood Palaemon isn't human)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I recently read \"In Looking Glass Castle\" and wondered if the man\nliving in the house might seem less like a hallucinatory problem if he\nactually dressed like a woman and had a life outside of the house. It\nwould make it easier for him to survive. If he is mentioned in the\nbook but is in disguise, it might be that he could have gotten on the\nboat at the end of the book. Does anyone have any ideas about who he\ncould be?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "prion: in my opinion, the man is a figment of Daisy's imagination. Read\nHenry James' \"Turn of the Screw,\" followed by Edmund Wilson's seminal essay\n\"The Ambiguity of Henry James,\" and then maybe go back to my post on ILGC\nin the archives. Or maybe he's now Norma(n) Bates.\n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Westlake", "address": "peter at harlequin.co.uk" }, "date": "1998-10-12T11:08:46+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v019.n016", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At 23:03 1998-10-11 -0500, Robert Borskiwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "But isn't the monial Catherine, uh, rather =short= for an exultant?\nI believe somewhere in the text it says that Thecla was Severian's\nadult height at the age of thirteen . . . and she kept growing, of\ncourse." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Catherine is the daughter of an armigette (Valeria) and an exultant\n(Caesidias), so she may be less than full exultant height. She probably\nalso has no khaibit (since I doubt her father is going to use her as a\nhostage concubine); hence no heightening or rejuvenating hormones. (Is this\nwhat you meant, SBear?)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, that was it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Hmm... interesting. Especially since the aquaestor takes on the\nrole of Master Palaemon. But isn't it stated or implied that Severian\nis the first torturer-autarch? And wouldn't there have to be an RNA\ntransfer to Appian during the period we know Palaemon is still alive?\n(Actually, do we have a date for his death?) " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Stinky the First (ne Reechy) aka Ymar the Almost Just was a torturer\nautarch. And I'm not sure what you mean by a RNA transfer (especially since\nin all likelihood Palaemon isn't human)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Did I miss something? Also, what was the evidence for the Cumaean\nbeing called Camoena? Or the Autarch being Appian?\n\nI do know what Kieran meant about RNA, though: there was a theory\naround for a while that RNA was the carrier of memory. Back in the\n1970's (ish) someone taught planarian worms to run a T-shaped maze,\nthen fed them to other planarian worms, and put those worms into\nthe maze. They appeared to guess which way to turn more often than\nchance would allow. There naturally followed a lot of stories based\non that, often making much of the cannibal belief that you could\nabsorb your enemies' strength and other virtues by eating them. This\naccount is taken from what I recall of the introduction to one such\nstory, so it may not be scientifically or historically accurate, but\nit reflects the author's understanding, which is what matters here.\nThe experiment seemed to suggest that memory must be carried chemically\n(cell structures wouldn't survive being ground up and eaten) and RNA\nwas a favorite contender for the role. I believe the theory has gone\naway now, though.\n\nSpectacled Bear." } ] } ] }