{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1174", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1174, "subject": "Severian of OED", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-10-15T05:38:00+00:00", "last": "1998-10-15T10:58:32+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1998-10-15T05:38:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian of OED", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "alga,\n\nI am cheered to see you so happy, even though it wasn't me who\nstarted the ball rolling in this case--it was David Duffy who posted\nthe OED \"Apheta\" and his closing comment that \"Severian\" was also in\nthe OED.\n\nBackgrounder for others: fact is, alga is credited with alerting me\nto the OED \"Apheta\" entry some several months ago, info which has\nbeen incorporated into the long heralded \"Additions, Errata, &cetera:\nVolume III.\"\n\nThe intended point of my post, which I hesitate to belabor in sight\nof your evident happiness, was to say, well yes, \"Severian\" is in the\nOED, but how much can you do with the information given there?\n\nIt makes you happy, so that's an unexpected consequence of the better\nkind and we can let my question drop--unless you would care to\namplify upon your enthusiasm, and that would be icing on the cake.\n\nDeeper background: yep, I listed that info for the Severian entry of\nLexicon Urthus (though I didn't tag it as being specifically from\nOED). And while I've always been fond of it, it still seems like a\ndead end or a short run from what at first seems like such a\npromising angle.\n\nraster,\n\nRight. Well I'm not saying that you or anybody has to believe what\nRobert Borski is posting. I'm saying that if there is an attempt at\nmaking the analogy \"Order versus Chaos,\" with Borski here being put\nup as the posterboy for \"Chaos,\" then I disagree--the more apt\nanalogy is \"Chaos versus Entropy.\"\n\nRobert Borski is also asking, \"Okay, so Clute can make these wild\nguesses, but I can't? Can anybody else but Clute do it--is anybody's\nreading valid?\" Which in certain ways is a very interesting question\n(ignoring that Clute has built a reputation and career over the years\ndoing the work that he does--still, he had to start somewhere,\nwithout a reputation).\n\nA very interesting question, to which the most depressing answer is,\n\"Clute who?\"\n\nEvery reader, sitting in his/her solitary cell, re-reading Wolfe.\nThat warm 'n' happy glow of being connected with every other solitary\nWolfe reader, basking in that illusion. Illusion? Each is reading\nan unexamined personalized text. The differences between texts will\nonly be revealed by sharing notes.\n\nWhy ruin the illusion(s)? The text exists only to entertain. Who\nwould want to spoil it all, point out how the movie sets are all just\ntwo-dimensional cut-outs?\n\nIf Robert Borski's wild ideas cause one to examine one's own text and\npost a report of it, then Entropy has been thwarted for the moment.\n\nThen again, if a person =really= wants Entropy, then she/he probably\nleft the mailing list already.\n\nIs it (talking about Urth, or the Whorl, or any collected Wolfe\nfiction) too much gnawing over old bones? Do people hereabouts only\nyearn for the fresh text, the initial rush of discovery, the coastal\ncruising of new continents represented therein? If so, then maybe we\nshould have a formal adjournment. That we leave this place, to\nreconvene only one month after the release of the first \"Short Sun\"\nbook; or maybe that is too soon--how about waiting until the final\n\"Short Sun\" book comes out in paperback?\n\nAnyway, while I've got you here--read any of the other more obscure\nGraves books? How about HERCULES, MY SHIPMATE and WATCH THE\nNORTHWIND RISE? The second title was evoked by Baird Searles in his\nreview of CLAW (IASFM, Jun. 1981) as an example of a full play within\nthe text. I managed to catch two worn paperbacks, but haven't read\n'em yet.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1998-10-15T10:58:32+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Severian of OED", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis,\n\none of the reasons I liked BotNS so much, I think, was the sense of a\ncompressed, palimpsest-like complexity. By the time I had joined the list, I\nhad read BotNS about four or five times, at which stage I still had\nquestions, or at least questionable interpretations. For me, at this remove,\nthe issues for which it's possible to frame rigorous and consensually\nreasonable accounts have largely been discussed in the list. We will, in the\nend, never know (by examination of the text) the purpose of the Witches'\ntable, the explanation for Agilus' ribbon, etc. These loose ends are\ntantalising, and maybe aren't just decorative. However, I'm content to bask\nin the warm entropic fug of ambiguity, which I think is an essential and\nfamiliar ingredient of reading Wolfe. Literary Luddite? Maybe, but then I'm\na reader, not a literary critic. Unlike most things, I don't want to take it\napart so much that I can see how it works.\n\nKieran Cleary\n\nNorth West Labs\nFinisklin Industrial Estate\nSligo\nRepublic of Ireland\n\nTel. +353 71 69441\nFax. +353 71 69451\nemail: kierannwn at tinet.ie" } ] } ] }