{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1186", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1186, "subject": "Fechin", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "1998-10-15T14:37:45+00:00", "last": "1998-12-14T20:05:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1998-10-15T14:37:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fechin", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is anybody beside me disturbed by how often Fechin's name is mentioned in\nthe Book of the New Sun? He seems to be extraordinarily well known for an\nartist, given the nature of the Commonwealth and its citizenry, in an age\nwhere there seems to be little in the way of media dissemination. Yes,\nit's expected the upper classes might be familiar with his work, but he\nseems almost to have cult status. I also find it odd that two of the\ncharacters we meet--Rudeskind, who claims Fechin sketched him as a youth;\nand old Becan's father, high in the faraway mountains, who claims to have\nbeen a childhood friend--both assert personal knowledge of him. \n\nOn the other hand, what I find interesting is how many people are soon\nclaiming they know Severian once he's become Autarch. Rudeskind, oddly\nenough of all people, is the first to point this out, observing, in a long,\nlong series of examples, \"Been a while now since I met a woman didn't kiss\nyou and sew up a hole in your pants...You're every boy that's ever been\nhere, and I've heard stories put on you that belong to men that was old\nwhen I was just a boy, and I've heard about things I did myself, seventy\nyears ago.\"\n\nSeverian also lists \"artisan\" when he talks about the commonality of most\nof the previous autarchs.\n\nJust a thought, but is it possible Fechin was an autarch who was once a\npainter?\n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1998-10-17T16:10:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Fechin", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Robert Borski,\n\nThat Fechin may have been autarch would appear to be quite difficult\nto prove in the text, but it doesn't seem impossible.\n\nI share your interest in Fechin as a mysterious, invisible thread\nthat connects elements otherwise impossibly removed (the Old Man of\nBecan's house and Rudesind of Nessus). But my inspiration is that\nthis odd \"coincidence,\" whatever the semantic/thematic significance\nof the touchstone actually is and/or might be, this echo, as I say,\nsignals what I am henchforth beginning to publically call a \"station\nof the sundial.\"\n\nThere, I've probably blown most of the thunder potential for an\nessay. So I might as well muddle through a bit more.\n\nThere are scenes in Severian's narrative that are clear and obvious\nechoes to other scenes contained within the text. Rudesind himself\nis an obvious example: the second time we see him, we wonder along\nwith Severian. Is the whole second Rudesind scene just to put extra\npush to the \"corridors of the Library stretch far beyond Nessus\"\nmetaphor? No, of course not--but it sure seems like it at very\nfirst, because the effect includes \"reality confusion\" in reader and\nSeverian.\n\n(In addition to anything else, the thread between Old Man and\nRudesind, between wilderness hut and vast cosmopolitan city, serves\nto deflate Severian of any sense he may have of \"escape,\"\n\"isolation,\" \"progress,\" etc. It is as if he is still in the Old\nCitadel he was born and raised in.)\n\nAnother very clear case is when scenes from \"Eschatology & Genesis\"\nare echoed or prefigured. This happens in at least three obvious\nplaces--Severian's experience in the Botanic Gardens (long before he\nis exposed to the play itself) is close to Scene I; Valeria (who has\nnever been exposed to the play) on the throne as the deluge comes\nenacts Scene III; and everybody's favorite mysterious Contessa (V,\nch. 41) from Scene IV.\n\nWhat I am saying is that these echoes amount to the hands of a clock\nreturning to a position on the clockface, or, to keep with the solar\nimages, the shadow of the gnomon returning to an hour on the sundial.\n\nIf I remember correctly, a similar echo went on with the Green man\nhero of THERE ARE DOORS--stepping between realities and/or\n\"billypilgriming,\" to use that wonderful term, and yet often winding\nup back at the play or the boxing match or another tableau.\n\n(In fact Billy Pilgrim has this exact same thing: he tends to go back\nto select moments of his life, the most visited being the nadir of\nDresden. Billy Pilgrim never blips to one of the mundane moments\nof everyday life that knit together the touchstones that form his\n\"stations\"; Billy never lives real time in real time. But now I =am=\nwandering away . . . Billy's story is more one of a life's trials and\na few joys revisited from near the end of life as if in memory, yet\nmade concrete. The Wolfe stories are more of one's present tense\nlife being shaped by unseen forces and patterns.)\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1998-12-07T15:42:12+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Fechin", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis,\n\nI don't have Lexicon Urthus to hand, so you probably already have this, but\nseeing as St. Fechin's 7th century church is in my locale, I should report\nthat:\n\n\"Legend tells us that St. Fechin was of the royal blood of Ireland, a\ndescendent of Fionn Fuathart, brother to Conn of the Hundred Battles, and of\nthe same race as St. Bridget. St. Nathy of Achonry supposedly educated St.\nFechin. The Annals tell us that St. Fechin was also abbot at Cong in County\nMayo and at Fore in Westmeath. He died in 664 AD.\", Archaeology in County\nSligo, Highwood Community Resource Centre, 1998\n\nFWIW.\n\nKieran C.\n\nNorth West Labs\nFinisklin Industrial Estate\nSligo\nRepublic of Ireland\n\nTel. +353 71 69441\nFax. +353 71 69451\nemail: kierannwn at tinet.ie" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1998-12-07T18:28:00+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Fechin", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello Sligo (and hello Kieran Cleary)!\n\nWell we do have some info on Fechin via THE OXFORD DICTIONARY OF\nSAINTS (which mentions the Co. Sligo), but the stingy Lexicon only\nsays \"Saint Fechin died 665\" (date from Oxford book, at odds with\nyour date) because I couldn't find any hint leading to \"artist,\"\n\"portraits,\" or even \"painting\" or \"art\" (i.e., threads leading to\nFechin of Urth) connected with this saint.\n\nAccording to the Old Man in Casdoe's house, Fechin of Urth had red\nhair on his head and arms (III, ch. 15). So that's an easy\nassociation with \"Irish\" right there (it also links back to\njourneyman Roche's red hair, which prompted the autarch-as-procurer\nto speak about how \"Far to the south, in the narrow lands, the\nsavages paint a fire spirit much like you\" [I, ch. 9] . . . ), but it\nisn't much to go on.\n\nAccording to the Oxford, Fechin is also known as Vigean, which\n\"corrupted to Virgin\" (I like that!). Fechin had a cult in Scotland.\n\nTrying to deduce the name of the Old Man in Casdoe's house by\ntriangulating \"Rudesind\" with \"Fechin,\" in the hope that these two\nsaints might have a saintly friend in common (ooh, clever!), makes\nthe \"crash and burn at the starting gate\" as Rudesind is a 10th\ncentury fellow!\n\nMaybe somebody can find the root meaning (onomastic) of Fechin (it\nain't in any of my books), and maybe this has some connection to\nFechin of Urth.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Derek Bell", "address": "dbell at maths.tcd.ie" }, "date": "1998-12-14T20:05:33+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Fechin", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In message <199812071836.KAA08451 at lists1.best.com>, m.driussi at genie.com writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "According to the Old Man in Casdoe's house, Fechin of Urth had red\nhair on his head and arms (III, ch. 15). So that's an easy\nassociation with \"Irish\" right there (it also links back to\njourneyman Roche's red hair, which prompted the autarch-as-procurer\nto speak about how \"Far to the south, in the narrow lands, the\nsavages paint a fire spirit much like you\" [I, ch. 9] . . . ), but it\nisn't much to go on." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tJust to note that Irish people aren't really that more\nredhaired than most other European peoples. Unfortunately, I don't\nhave figures to back that up, but I haven't noticed any visible difference." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "According to the Oxford, Fechin is also known as Vigean, which\n\"corrupted to Virgin\" (I like that!). Fechin had a cult in Scotland." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tI wouldn't be surprised if Fechin or some of his monks founded\na church or even monastery in Scotland - it's not too far from Sligo\nto Scotland.\n\n\tDerek" } ] } ] }