{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1190", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1190, "subject": "Inire and the Cumaean", "messages": 2, "voices": 1, "first": "1998-10-15T17:59:20+00:00", "last": "1998-10-15T18:00:21+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mary whalen", "address": "marewhalen at yahoo.com" }, "date": "1998-10-15T17:59:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Inire and the Cumaean", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is Sean Whalen(prion).\n\nRobert Borski proposed the theory of many of the Hierodules having two\nnames, or an associated meaning. He also proposed that the Cumaean's\nname was Camoena and that Inire's name was Abraxas. I have a slightly\ndifferent interpretation on their names.\n\nSince Ossipago, Barbatus, and Famulimus have the names of Roman gods,\nit seems probable that the others do, too (or at least an\nassociation). Inire, with the second i being long, is the Latin word\nfor \"to begin, to enter, to come/go in\" (as in \"initial\"). Not a\nnoun, the infinitive form of a verb. Cumaean, with a long u, is not a\nnoun either, it's an adjective. The first sibyl was called the\nCumaean sibyl because she supposedly came from the city of Cumae. \nThese are indications that those are not their real names, or else\nthat a further association might be sought.\n\nNow, here's my theory. Inire come from Latin in (in) and ire (to go).\n The Roman gods associated with the verb ire are Abeona (abeo, \"I go\naway\" from abire), the goddess of a child leaving home for the first\ntime, Adeona (adeo, \"I approach\"), the goddess of that child's return,\nand Ianus (Janus), the two-faced god of beginnings, doors, gates, and\npassageways. His name means \"covered passage, gate, barbican\"\n(similar to ianua, a door). He had almost no part in mythology. I'm\nbetting that Ianus is the main association/name meant to be seen (as\nI've mentioned before, I wouldn't look so deeply if Wolfe didn't use\nso much symbolism). The two faces figures in with all the twin images\nin the book (and furthers Borski's genealogical theories), and Latin\nfor Two-Faced is Bifrons (root Bifront-), which sounds much like\nBifrost, the Rainbow Bridge of Norse myth which was used as the\npassage to Asgard (Godland, like Yesod) which would tie in with\nInire's mirrors that are passages to elsewhere. Ianus being the god\nof beginnings and endings (January) gives a closer connection to the\nword inire. Looking into a mirror causes a person to become\ntwo-faced. Each part of the book begins and ends at a gateway. Ianus\nwas connected with his Greek counterpart Kronos, who was mistaken for\n_Father Time_ because of the similarity of their names (kronos/khronos\n(cronos/chronos)). Ianus was often considered to be the father of\nIuno and Iuppiter/Iovis (Juno and Jupiter) who were both siblings and\nspouses (connecting Borski's theories about Barbatus and Famulimus). \nHe was also said to be the father (with his wife Camise) of Tiberinus,\nafter whom the River Tiber is names, as he drowned in it (like\nSeverian and the namesake of Palaemon). Ianus was married to Cardea,\nor Carna, or Camise (it's confusing and is probably muddled, sometimes\nthey're all considered one person or different people). Cardea was\nthe goddess of hinges (the Latin word for hinge is cardo, root\ncardin-) and domestic life. The others have associations with canere,\nto sing. Anyway, Cardea, or whoever, supposedly seduced men to follow\nher into a cave and then ran away (what's the point?). When she tried\nthis with Ianus, he saw her leaving with his second face and caught\nher. They actually completed the act, and Ianus decided to give her\nthe power to chase away the vampires of the night (alga...?). They\nhad a child, Proca, the king of Alba Longa (Long White, whatever\nthat's supposed to mean), and Cardea used her power to protect him. \nProca's children where Numitor and Amulius. Numitor was the father of\nRhea Silvia and grandfather of Romulus and Remus (connecting to \"A Boy\nNamed Frog\"). Amulius overthrew Numitor, but Romulus and Remus\nrestored him to his throne. The Cumaean may be associated somewhat\nwith Cardea, Carna, and Camise. Also associated with song are the\nCasmenae/Camenae, the goddesses of wells and springs, which sound more\nlike Cumae and Cumaean. Hopefully these theories can help in\ninterpreting some of the meaning of the symbolism and naming.\n\nprion" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mary whalen", "address": "marewhalen at yahoo.com" }, "date": "1998-10-15T18:00:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Inire and the Cumaean", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is Sean Whalen (prion).\n\nRobert Borski proposed the theory of many of the Hierodules having two\nnames, or an associated meaning. He also proposed that the Cumaean's\nname was Camoena and that Inire's name was Abraxas. I have a slightly\ndifferent interpretation on their names.\n\nSince Ossipago, Barbatus, and Famulimus have the names of Roman gods,\nit seems probable that the others do, too (or at least an\nassociation). Inire, with the second i being long, is the Latin word\nfor \"to begin, to enter, to come/go in\" (as in \"initial\"). Not a\nnoun, the infinitive form of a verb. Cumaean, with a long u, is not a\nnoun either, it's an adjective. The first sibyl was called the\nCumaean sibyl because she supposedly came from the city of Cumae. \nThese are indications that those are not their real names, or else\nthat a further association might be sought.\n\nNow, here's my theory. Inire come from Latin in (in) and ire (to go).\n The Roman gods associated with the verb ire are Abeona (abeo, \"I go\naway\" from abire), the goddess of a child leaving home for the first\ntime, Adeona (adeo, \"I approach\"), the goddess of that child's return,\nand Ianus (Janus), the two-faced god of beginnings, doors, gates, and\npassageways. His name means \"covered passage, gate, barbican\"\n(similar to ianua, a door). He had almost no part in mythology. I'm\nbetting that Ianus is the main association/name meant to be seen (as\nI've mentioned before, I wouldn't look so deeply if Wolfe didn't use\nso much symbolism). The two faces figures in with all the twin images\nin the book (and furthers Borski's genealogical theories), and Latin\nfor Two-Faced is Bifrons (root Bifront-), which sounds much like\nBifrost, the Rainbow Bridge of Norse myth which was used as the\npassage to Asgard (Godland, like Yesod) which would tie in with\nInire's mirrors that are passages to elsewhere. Ianus being the god\nof beginnings and endings (January) gives a closer connection to the\nword inire. Looking into a mirror causes a person to become\ntwo-faced. Each part of the book begins and ends at a gateway. Ianus\nwas connected with his Greek counterpart Kronos, who was mistaken for\n_Father Time_ because of the similarity of their names (kronos/khronos\n(cronos/chronos)). Ianus was often considered to be the father of\nIuno and Iuppiter/Iovis (Juno and Jupiter) who were both siblings and\nspouses (connecting Borski's theories about Barbatus and Famulimus). \nHe was also said to be the father (with his wife Camise) of Tiberinus,\nafter whom the River Tiber is names, as he drowned in it (like\nSeverian and the namesake of Palaemon). Ianus was married to Cardea,\nor Carna, or Camise (it's confusing and is probably muddled, sometimes\nthey're all considered one person or different people). Cardea was\nthe goddess of hinges (the Latin word for hinge is cardo, root\ncardin-) and domestic life. The others have associations with canere,\nto sing. Anyway, Cardea, or whoever, supposedly seduced men to follow\nher into a cave and then ran away (what's the point?). When she tried\nthis with Ianus, he saw her leaving with his second face and caught\nher. They actually completed the act, and Ianus decided to give her\nthe power to chase away the vampires of the night (alga...?). They\nhad a child, Proca, the king of Alba Longa (Long White, whatever\nthat's supposed to mean), and Cardea used her power to protect him. \nProca's children where Numitor and Amulius. Numitor was the father of\nRhea Silvia and grandfather of Romulus and Remus (connecting to \"A Boy\nNamed Frog\"). Amulius overthrew Numitor, but Romulus and Remus\nrestored him to his throne. The Cumaean may be associated somewhat\nwith Cardea, Carna, and Camise. Also associated with song are the\nCasmenae/Camenae, the goddesses of wells and springs, which sound more\nlike Cumae and Cumaean. Hopefully these theories can help in\ninterpreting some of the meaning of the symbolism and naming.\n\nprion" } ] } ] }