{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1204", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1204, "subject": "Terminus Est", "messages": 5, "voices": 5, "first": "1998-10-17T18:36:50+00:00", "last": "1998-12-05T09:46:05+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1998-10-17T18:36:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Anybody have any notions how Terminus Est came into the possession of\nPalaemon? The sword, after all, is no mere carnificial sword, but a\nvaluable weapon, owing to its smithing by Jovinian (Agilus claims it's\nworth a villa). But Palaemon is a mere torturer and the guild itself\nappears to be in rather dire finances; Gurloes must doctor the books in\norder to receive more operating capital and half of all apprentices die,\nsuggesting the Matachin Tower is anything but the Mariott Urth. One also\nwonders why Palaemon hasn't attempted to sell the sword before, since it\nwould obviously help replenish the guild's coffers. He apparently doesn't\nuse it himself (or else Severian probably would have mentioned this) and he\ncan't have received Terminus Est as an heirloom; torturers have no\nfamilies. And is it likely he could ever have earned enough as a torturer\nto purchase such a prize, even if we include the years he spent in exile?\nIt seems as well an unlikely gratuity for services well rendered. So how\ndid he acquire it?\n\nThoughts, opinions, conjectures? (I'll spare you mine, not wanting to incur\nthe ire of this list's megatherians.)\n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "1998-10-28T00:59:08+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Robert Borski wrote:\n\nAnybody have any notions how Terminus Est came into the possession of\nPalaemon? The sword, after all, is no mere carnificial sword, but a\nvaluable weapon, owing to its smithing by Jovinian (Agilus claims it's\nworth a villa). But Palaemon is a mere torturer and the guild itself\nappears to be in rather dire finances; Gurloes must doctor the books in\norder to receive more operating capital and half of all apprentices die,\nsuggesting the Matachin Tower is anything but the Mariott Urth. One also\nwonders why Palaemon hasn't attempted to sell the sword before, since it\nwould obviously help replenish the guild's coffers. He apparently doesn't\nuse it himself (or else Severian probably would have mentioned this) and he\ncan't have received Terminus Est as an heirloom; torturers have no\nfamilies. And is it likely he could ever have earned enough as a torturer\nto purchase such a prize, even if we include the years he spent in exile?\nIt seems as well an unlikely gratuity for services well rendered. So how\ndid he acquire it?\n\nThoughts, opinions, conjectures? (I'll spare you mine, not wanting to incur\nthe ire of this list's megatherians.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My first thought - not much helpful - is that it is cearly an executioner's\nblade and has little other practical use. So a carnifex, or by extention\nTorturer, as that it what they are often seen as outside the Citadel, would be\nthe hands in which one would expect to find such a thing. Similarly Palaemon\nmay not have thought that aa apropriate buyer could be found.\n\nWe really don't know that much about Palaemon's time outside the Citadel. Were\nit a gift it seems a likely one from a figure such as the Archon of Thrax or\nanother noble to whom it would be a trifle, Were it bought it might be that\nthe seller simply didn't know the value of what he was selling. Did Palaemon\neven? He certainly treasures it, but that doesn't mean that he knew it's\nmonetary value - if Agilus wasn't lying.\n\nMatthew" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jonathan Laidlow", "address": "laidlojm at hhs.bham.ac.uk" }, "date": "1998-12-03T17:25:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) terminus est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just because the Biblical and historical evidence does not support \nour reading of 'Terminus Est' as a deliberate echo of the Latin \ntranslations of the Biblical 'Consumatum Est'/It is finished, surely \nthat does not mean that 'Terminus Est' does not deliberately echo \nJesus' words, albeit in a different language.\n\nSurely the eclectic religious symbolism used in the Book supports\nthis. Its not as strong a point as the original one that there is a \ndirect correlation, but I believe the general point is sound. \n\nOr am I missing the point somewhat? \nJonathan\n********************************************************\n\nJonathan Laidlow\nDept of English - staff pigeonholes\nUniversity of Birmingham\nEdgbaston\nBirmingham\nB15 2TT, England\n0121 414 5976" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at crossover.com" }, "date": "1998-12-03T12:50:44+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) terminus est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 05:25 PM 12/3/98 GMT, Jonathan Laidlow wrote:\nSurely the eclectic religious symbolism used in the Book supports\nthis. Its not as strong a point as the original one that there is a \ndirect correlation, but I believe the general point is sound. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, that's a good point--even if Wolfe didn't mean the connection to\nbe there, it's a nifty one anyway. \n\nI would still like to know whether \"it is finished\" really is a good\ntranslation for \"terminus est\", though. \n\nWombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "mary whalen", "address": "marewhalen at yahoo.com" }, "date": "1998-12-05T09:46:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) re: Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This is Sean Whalen (prion).\n\nHas anyone mentioned a possible connection for Terminus Est with a\nplanet's terminator before? A terminator is the line on a planet (or\nother round body) dividing the lighted day side from the dark side. \nIt's not a permanent line, or anything; it changes as the planet moves\nin relation to the sun.\n\nprion" } ] } ] }