Subject: (urth) Terminus Est

From: Robert Borski <rborski at coredcs.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:36:50 +0000

Anybody have any notions how Terminus Est came into the possession of
Palaemon? The sword, after all, is no mere carnificial sword, but a
valuable weapon, owing to its smithing by Jovinian (Agilus claims it's
worth a villa). But Palaemon is a mere torturer and the guild itself
appears to be in rather dire finances; Gurloes must doctor the books in
order to receive more operating capital and half of all apprentices die,
suggesting the Matachin Tower is anything but the Mariott Urth. One also
wonders why Palaemon hasn't attempted to sell the sword before, since it
would obviously help replenish the guild's coffers. He apparently doesn't
use it himself (or else Severian probably would have mentioned this) and he
can't have received Terminus Est as an heirloom; torturers have no
families. And is it likely he could ever have earned enough as a torturer
to purchase such a prize, even if we include the years he spent in exile?
It seems as well an unlikely gratuity for services well rendered. So how
did he acquire it?

Thoughts, opinions, conjectures? (I'll spare you mine, not wanting to incur
the ire of this list's megatherians.)

Robert Borski

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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From: Matthew Malthouse <matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 00:59:08 +0000

> the ire of this list's megatherians.)

My first thought - not much helpful - is that it is cearly an executioner's
blade and has little other practical use. So a carnifex, or by extention
Torturer, as that it what they are often seen as outside the Citadel, would be
the hands in which one would expect to find such a thing. Similarly Palaemon
may not have thought that aa apropriate buyer could be found.

We really don't know that much about Palaemon's time outside the Citadel. Were
it a gift it seems a likely one from a figure such as the Archon of Thrax or
another noble to whom it would be a trifle,  Were it bought it might be that
the seller simply didn't know the value of what he was selling.  Did Palaemon
even? He certainly treasures it, but that doesn't mean that he knew it's
monetary value - if Agilus wasn't lying.

Matthew

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From: Jonathan Laidlow <laidlojm at hhs.bham.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 17:25:06 +0000

Just because the Biblical and historical evidence does not support 
our reading of 'Terminus Est' as a deliberate echo of the Latin 
translations of the Biblical 'Consumatum Est'/It is finished, surely 
that does not mean that 'Terminus Est' does not deliberately echo 
Jesus' words, albeit in a different language.

Surely the eclectic religious symbolism used in the Book supports
this. Its not as strong a point as the original one that there is a 
direct correlation, but I believe the general point is sound. 

Or am I missing the point somewhat? 
Jonathan
********************************************************

Jonathan Laidlow
Dept of English - staff pigeonholes
University of Birmingham
Edgbaston
Birmingham
B15 2TT, England
0121 414 5976

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From: Kevin J. Maroney <kmaroney at crossover.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 12:50:44 +0000

>direct correlation, but I believe the general point is sound. 

Actually, that's a good point--even if Wolfe didn't mean the connection to
be there, it's a nifty one anyway. 

I would still like to know whether "it is finished" really is a good
translation for "terminus est", though. 

Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction
http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html

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From: mary whalen <marewhalen at yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 09:46:05 +0000

This is Sean Whalen (prion).

Has anyone mentioned a possible connection for Terminus Est with a
planet's terminator before?  A terminator is the line on a planet (or
other round body) dividing the lighted day side from the dark side. 
It's not a permanent line, or anything; it changes as the planet moves
in relation to the sun.

prion

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