{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1240",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
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  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1240,
    "subject": "linguistics and sf",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1998-11-01T15:01:22+00:00",
    "last": "1998-11-01T15:01:22+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0021-0033@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Damien Broderick",
        "address": "damien at ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au"
      },
      "date": "1998-11-01T15:01:22+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) linguistics and sf",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "< This post is interesting, because I recently saw a book by Jack Vance\ncalled _The Languages of Pao_, which said something like \"The first\nscience fiction book based on the science of linguistics\" on the\ncover.  I have no idea what the story is about.  Since Wolfe says he\nwas influenced by Vance, particularly the Dying Earth books, I\nwondered if there are any stories where someone has noticed any\nemphasis on linguistics.\n\nprion >\n\nPractically everything by Samuel R. Delany.  Except that, alas, his notion\nof linguistics is still mired in Saussure and the whole erratic poststruck\nrecension via Lacan.  The NATIVE TONGUE/JUDAS ROSE books by Suzette Haden\nElgin, a linguistics prof, in which Xian ayatollah-oppressed wimmin\nimplausibly invent a language for themselves that more truly reflects their\ndistinctive experience, and excludes the foe (a language, as it were, that\nmen can't hear).  Vance is full of (a crudely emphatic parody of) the Whorf\nposit, as are various other classic '50s Campbell-era stories and novels.\nSome guy with a Frog name who's a computational linguist and whose fairly\nrecent book has GLASS in the title.\n\nAt risk of a hernia, I lug out my Clute/Nicholls ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SF - yep,\nthere's a long detailed entry by my old pal Peter Nicholls, who inter alia\nmakes the disgraceful error of  writing `deep structure' (the hidden\ncognitive substructure of variant sentences meaning the same thing) when he\nmeans `genetically-ordained grammar template' (the phenotypic universals\ninstilled by a common genotype rather than by personal experience or\ncultural tradition - which can only set choices from those menus - required\nby regnant Chomskyan linguistics).\n\nDamien Broderick"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}