{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1278", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1278, "subject": "Urth: Terminus Est", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1998-11-26T06:56:12+00:00", "last": "1998-11-29T23:08:39+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nigel Price", "address": "nigelprice1 at compuserve.com" }, "date": "1998-11-26T06:56:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Urth: Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Half wishing now that I'd opted for the subscription option whereby I would\nget each message as it came out, rather than waiting for each evening's\ndigest of the day's correspondence, I find myself too impatient to wait to\nfind out whether the author of the \"Lexicon Urthus\" really is a regular\ncontributor to the list, and plunge ahead to ask one of the many questions\nabout that splendid work that has been bothering me ever since I bought it.\n\nIt concern's Severian's sword, Terminus Est. The \"Lexicon Urthus\" article\nbegins as follows:\n\n Terminus Est - the carnificial sword that Master Palaemon\n gives to Severian. Its name is translated by Severian as\n \"This Is the Line of Division,\" but it could also be read\n \"This Is the End\" (either a message to the condemned\n or a name denoting the final work of the weaponsmith),\n or perhaps most intriguingly, \"This Is Terminus, God\n of Boundaries.\"\n\nThe article then continues with an interesting discussion of swords made\nfrom meteoric iron and points of similarity between Severian's sword and\nKing Arthur's Excalibur.\n\nBut surely the obvious point about Severian's sword is that it is named in\na direct quotation of Christ's words from the cross, \"It is finished!\",\nwhich I'm pretty sure is translated in the Vulgate (Wolfe, I believe, is a\nCatholic) as \"Terminus Est.\" (I couldn't find my Latin Vulgate when I was\nlooking just now, but if anyone has one to hand, perhaps they could check\nfor me.)\n\nAnyway, that would seem to the most obvious if not the only possible\ntranslation of \"Terminus Est\" - \"It is finished.\"\n\nNow, I'd always taken this to be part of Wolfe's oblique presentation of\nSeverian as a Messianic figure. This element of his persona seems to\nbecome most explicit in the account of his encounter with Typhon, where the\nnarrative suddenly, and to me, at any rate, surprisingly, falls into the\npattern of Christ's temptation by the Devil in the wilderness.\n\n(As an aside, I should say that this moving in and out of an overtly\nsymbolic or allegorical mode is one of Wolfe's most characteristic and\nintriguing literary techniques. One moment, all is naturalistic, the next\nmoment you're in the middle of a parable. The transition each way is\nusually so deft that it takes me completely by surprise, and often takes my\nbreath away. For instance: is \"Free Live Free\" an allegory of grace? It\nseems to be at some points - in the opening and closing sections, for\ninstance - but elsewhere it drifts into a rambling if amusingly Runyanesque\naccount of urban low life. Then again, bang in the middle of the story,\njust when you think you've worked out what sort of narrative mode you're\nin, Wolfe introduces the story of the power failure in the mental hospital,\nand suddenly you're in a quasi-Platonic parable, like a modern day version\nof the Parable of the Cave in \"The Republic\". How do you tell which are\nthe patients and which are the doctors when all the lights go out? But I\ndigress...)\n\nIt may seem strange to give Christ's words on the cross as the name of a\nsword, but there is in fact plenty of sword imagery associated with Christ\nin the New Testament. Matthew 10:34 has Jesus announcing...\n\n \"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the\n earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.\"\n\nI once read an interview with Wolfe where he said that he used \"Pilgrim's\nProgress\" as one of the literary models for TBotNS, (Severian travelling\nfrom the Guild of Torturers to the Autarch's palace just as Bunyan's\nChristian escaped the City of Destruction and travelled to the Celestial\nCity?), so Christ's instructions to his disciples in Luke 22:36 may be\napposite:\n\n He said to them, \"But now if you have a purse, take it,\n and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your\n cloak and buy one.\"\n\nSeverian, after all, does set out on his \"pilgrimage\" equipped with both a\nsword and a cloak (albeit an extremely black one!).\n\nSince, as you've probably realized, I'm just pasting these references\nacross from the concordance on my hard disk, you might also like to\nconsider Terminus Est in the light of Romans 13:4, where Paul's description\nof the authority of a civil ruler does bear a certain resemblance to\nSeverian's judicial role:\n\n For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do\n wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for\n nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring\n punishment on the wrongdoer.\n\nThen again, you've got Ephesians 6:17, in the famous \"Whole Armour of God\"\npassage, where the believer is encouraged to take \"the sword of the Spirit,\nwhich is the word of God.\" Hebrews 4:12 is interesting too, because again\nthe sword is interpreted as having a judicial role:\n\n For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than\n any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul\n and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and\n attitudes of the heart.\n\nNothing about mercury in the blade, but never mind...\n\nRevelation symbolises Christ's words as a two-edged sword coming from his\nmouth (cf Rev 1.16, 2.12, 2.16, 19.15 and 19.21), and interestingly for us\n(well, I don't know, moderately interestingly for us, I suppose...) in view\nof Severian's ultimate role as bringer of the New Sun, describes Christ's\nface as shining like the sun (eg Rev 1.16).\n\nSo... \"Terminus Est\" as an adjunct of Severian the pilgrim, as both tool\nand symbol of his role as judicial authority, and as an attribute that\nconfirms his Christ-like significance.\n\nWhat do people think?\n\nNigel Price\nMinety, Wiltshire\nEngland" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at crossover.com" }, "date": "1998-11-29T11:52:59+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Urth: Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 06:56 AM 11/26/98 -0500, Nigel wrote:\nBut surely the obvious point about Severian's sword is that it is named in\na direct quotation of Christ's words from the cross, \"It is finished!\",\nwhich I'm pretty sure is translated in the Vulgate (Wolfe, I believe, is a\nCatholic) as \"Terminus Est.\" (I couldn't find my Latin Vulgate when I was\nlooking just now, but if anyone has one to hand, perhaps they could check\nfor me.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "John 19:30 cum ergo accepisset Iesus acetum dixit consummatum est et\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ \n inclinato capite tradidit spiritum\n\n(\"And when Jesus had received the vinegar, he said \"It is finished\" and\nbowed his head and gave up his spirit.\") \n\nIt's always a danger to assume that words in other languages have the same\nconnotations and nuances that they do in English, of course. \n\nOtherwise, excellent rumination on grace, Christian imagery, etc.\n\nWombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1998-11-29T23:08:39+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Urth: Terminus Est", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Kevin J. Maroney wrote:\nAt 06:56 AM 11/26/98 -0500, Nigel wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But surely the obvious point about Severian's sword is that it is named in\na direct quotation of Christ's words from the cross, \"It is finished!\",\nwhich I'm pretty sure is translated in the Vulgate (Wolfe, I believe, is a\nCatholic) as \"Terminus Est.\" (I couldn't find my Latin Vulgate when I was\nlooking just now, but if anyone has one to hand, perhaps they could check\nfor me.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "John 19:30 cum ergo accepisset Iesus acetum dixit consummatum est et\n ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alas! A very beautiful hypothesis slain by an ugly fact. Nigel really\nhad me feeling like I'd missed the blindingly obvious for a minute there.\n\nEven so, the comparison is interesting. I've heard more than one sermon\non the importance of understanding the last words of Jesus to mean \"It is\nconsumated\" rather than \"It is the end.\" \n\nSeverian's sword is shattered, after all. He must cease being one who\nsays \"It is the end\" to the condemned in order that he may one day say,\n\"It is consumated\" to the whole world.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] } ] }