Subject: (urth) Severian's Lies

From: David_Lebling <david_lebling at avid.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:59:37 +0000

Another one.  After describing his near drowning on the day he rescued
Vodalus, he says "I never went back" to the river.  Yet a few chapters
later, ("The Last Year", I think) he describes taking the apprentices down
to swim in the river, "though I could never dive in deep water without
fear."

     Dave Lebling
     (aka vizcacha)
     (david_lebling at avid.com)

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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From: m.driussi <m.driussi at genie.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:25:00 +0000

Viscacha,

You've missed one already--what are you trying to do, cover for
Severian? <g>

One of Greg Feeley's list of "Severian's lies" is in chapter four,
when Valeria mentions the Tower of Torment "where all who enter die
in agony."

Quote Severian: "I told her that, at least, was a fable."

Then again, Feeley was flexible enough to note that the lie was based
on the technicallity that the torturers themselves entered (and
exited) on a daily basis without dying in agony.  FWIW!

=mantis=

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From: Kevin J. Maroney <kmaroney at crossover.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 14:20:26 +0000

>exited) on a daily basis without dying in agony.  FWIW!

Alternately, doesn't Severian state that occasionally prisoners die of
natural causes while awaiting their sentences?

Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction
http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:07:19 +0000

> exited) on a daily basis without dying in agony.  FWIW!

Forgive me if I'm misremembering and the "Tower of Torment" refers
specifically to the execution wing of the torturer's building, but aren't
there a lot of "clients" whose sentence includes some form of torture but
not death? 

-Rostrum

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From: Derek Bell <dbell at maths.tcd.ie>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:08:15 +0000

In message <199812171401.GAA28091 at lists1.best.com>, David_Lebling at avid.com writ
>to swim in the river, "though I could never dive in deep water without

	I'm not sure if that's a lie or just an inconsistency caused
by Severian writing at different times. (I think there's a comment by
Severian that says that there might be a long time between two words
in the same sentence being written.)

	Then again, that comment could be a lie to cover up other
lies!

	Derek

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From: Derek Bell <dbell at maths.tcd.ie>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 22:14:37 +0000

>natural causes while awaiting their sentences?

	Possibly some forms of suicide could also account for this.[1] (I've
just had this image of Severian singing the theme from M*A*S*H - I've
a strange sense of humour!)

	BTW, a quick search has just revealed this URL:
http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~djw1005/Personal/Quotes/newsun.html

	Derek

[1]I don't know enough about medicine to tell if Thecla's death could
have been painless.