{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1314", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1314, "subject": "Several things...", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "1999-01-01T16:15:17+00:00", "last": "1999-01-04T14:56:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu" }, "date": "1999-01-01T16:15:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Several things...", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tWow... You head into the hills and lose email for a few weeks, and the\nlist just explodes with stuff...\n\n\tAnyway, thoughts from holiday reading:\n\n\tHas anyone ever noticed that THERE ARE DOORS is very close to 1st\nperson? If you replace the word \"he\" with \"I\" you have something almost\nindistinguishable from 1st person. Green is always (as far as I can tell)\nreferred to as \"he\". I don't think the other males in the book are ever\nreferred to by pronouns. It's very strange--and led me occasionally to\nmentally replace the \"he\" and transform it into a Weer/Severian confessional...\nAny ideas on what this means? It's clearly intentional, because I would think\nthat it simply couldn't be done without conscious effort--not like leaving out\nthe letter \"e\" or anything, but still--restricting the male pronoun to the\nprotagonist only, and NEVER referring to him by name...\n\n\tAlso, read Chesterton's ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI, and wondered if anyone\nelse found it plausible that Silk's (brief and unsuccesssful) career as burglar\nwas inspired in part by St. Francis' attempt to repair a ruined chapel with\nmoney stolen from his father--Chesterton concentrates quite a bit on the event\nand its meanings, and I'm certain Wolfe's read the book... The relevant\nmaterial is in Chapter IV of the book, especially p. 54 of the Image edition...\nIf it is a source, then Silk really is a very Chesterton-influenced figure\n(given the obvious Father Brown heritage).\n\n\tBy the way, I found this list's Patrick O'Leary's THE GIFT under the\nChristmas tree at my house a few days ago (oddly appropriate...) and am eagerly\nawaiting a chance to delve into it." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.\" - John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu)\nSenior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction)\n'98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President\n608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366\nhttp://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kevin J. Maroney", "address": "kmaroney at crossover.com" }, "date": "1999-01-04T11:42:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Several things...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 04:15 PM 1/1/99 -0500, Alex wrote:\nHas anyone ever noticed that THERE ARE DOORS is very close to 1st\nperson? If you replace the word \"he\" with \"I\" you have something almost\nindistinguishable from 1st person. Green is always (as far as I can tell)\nreferred to as \"he\". " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Any ideas on what this means? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have the feeling--based on only one reading of the novel; Wolfe's\ncontemporary fantasy novels don't inspire me to re-read them---that \"Mr.\nGreen\" is not his name. If I recall correctly, the only source for that\nname was a mental hospital, and as you point out, the narrator strenously\navoids calling him anything other than \"he\". \n\nAlternately, it may be the case that Green is the first-person narrator of\nthe novel but, due to mental disorders, is disassociated from his own\nidentity to the point where he views events happening to himself as\nhappening to a third party.\n\nWombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com\nKitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction\nhttp://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu" }, "date": "1999-01-04T14:56:15+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Several things...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Jan 4, 11:42am, Kevin J. Maroney wrote:\nHas anyone ever noticed that THERE ARE DOORS is very close to 1st\nA> >person? If you replace the word \"he\" with \"I\" you have something almost\nindistinguishable from 1st person. Green is always (as far as I can tell)\nreferred to as \"he\". " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Any ideas on what this means? " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I have the feeling--based on only one reading of the novel; Wolfe's\ncontemporary fantasy novels don't inspire me to re-read them---that \"Mr.\nGreen\" is not his name. If I recall correctly, the only source for that\nname was a mental hospital, and as you point out, the narrator strenously\navoids calling him anything other than \"he\". \n\nAlternately, it may be the case that Green is the first-person narrator of\nthe novel but, due to mental disorders, is disassociated from his own\nidentity to the point where he views events happening to himself as\nhappening to a third party." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tHmmm... Despite having heard a good deal before reading it of the\nambiguity of TAD, I think it's (for Wolfe especially) very heavily weighted in\nfavor of the alternatte worlds/fantasy explanation, and against the \"the guy is\nnuts\" explanation. The name identification (a nice piece of Wolfe dialogoue,\nwhere the receptionist thinks \"Green\" is giving her his name when he's\nanswering a question about what the word \"viridian\" means) does come from the\nreceptionist at the mental health institute, but later, after being called Mr.\nGreen several times, the protagonist wonders how she knew his name--so either\nit really is his name, or both he and the hospital are confused...\n\tNo, contemporary fantasy isn't Wolfe's forte, although I found THERE\nARE DOORS much more enjoyable the CASTLEVIEW." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.\" - John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu)\nSenior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction)\n'98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President\n608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366\nhttp://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce" } ] } ] }