Subject: (urth) Forlesen -- Thoughts?

From: Jack Redelfs <jredelfs at hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:24:07 +0000

Wow...I just finished reading Forlesen. Amazing. I think it might be my 
favorite Wolfe story so far. One of the things I liked most about it was 
the subtle humor, almost Dilbertian (ok, so Dilbert is not very 
subtle...you know what I mean) in effect. The ending was pure Wolfe...we 
don't _really_ expect him to spill the beans in the end like an Agatha 
Christie novel (though he likes doing odd things to keep his readers 
wary...maybe he'll try that one of these days). I don't know where to 
begin to ask questions. I'm sure you've all talked about this story 
before, but how about some general opinions.

Off the top of my head,

 1. Is Forlesen a computer program?
 2. Is he a ghost?
 3. Are the other people computer programs?
 4. What about the hitchhiker?
 5. What about the red book?
 6. And the sudden deaths?
 7. Why does every surname start with an F...
 8. What about those shifting columns that he saw, just before the cop 
came...does that mean it was all an illusion?

anyway...

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From: William H. Ansley <wansley at warwick.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 00:06:33 +0000

>came...does that mean it was all an illusion?

I have a new theory about these shadows. (And that is all Forlesen saw,
after all, the shadows of whatever was holding up the road. And can we even
be sure of that?)

They were the shadows of beanstalks. Forlesen was up in the land of the
giants in the clouds. That's why all the distances were so vast and it took
him so long to drive to work!

And I don't care beans if anyone disagrees with me. <g>

>One of the things I liked most about it was
>subtle...you know what I mean) in effect.

Actually, it took me a moment to realize what you meant, but I got it and I
think you have a point here that I am not sure has been made before in this
list. This story is, among many other things, a satire on the
late-twentieth-century job in the industrialized world and specifically in
United States of America and a pointed reminder of what is wrong with it.
Or as Matt Groening put it, _Work is Hell_.

Now, I don't claim this isn't obvious, but I am not sure the importance of
this aspect of the story has been adequately recognized on this list. After
all, Wolfe does make this his Labor Day story in _Gene Wolfe's Book of
Days_. And Wolfe has repeatedly said that he felt very lucky to have a job
he enjoyed, implying, at least, that most people do not.

--------------------------------------------
And now for another fun Gene Wolfe activity.
--------------------------------------------
Gene Wolfe left some perfectly good holidays out of _Gene Wolfe's Book of
Days_. I suggest that we all pick a missing holiday and suggest a story for
it. I'll start: Groundhog's Day - "Feather Tigers".

William Ansley

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From: Tony Ellis <tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 10:21:39 +0000

>  3. Are the other people computer programs?

The computer theory was raised a while ago, but I could argue any one of
a dozen different explanations just as convincingly. I don't believe
there is supposed to be any one "real" explanation of where Forlesen is
or what is going on, and that's much to Gene Wolfe's credit. The story
is a satire on working life, and to tie it down to any one pat
explanation ("Surprise! It was a computer simulation all along!") is
greatly to reduce its power. 

>  4. What about the hitchhiker?
He's (amongst other things) emblematic of an earlier, disenfranchised
generation, who did real work rather than the meaningless paperchasing
of Forlesen's colleagues.

>  5. What about the red book?
It's the Bible, or any religious book, or for that matter any text which
purports to tell us how to live and what life is really all about.
Notice how it loses something in translation?

>  6. And the sudden deaths?
They're not sudden. 240 ours is a working lifetime in this world.

>  7. Why does every surname start with an F...
Uh-uh. The surnames of Forlesen's generation begin with F, just as the
first names begin with an E, but the initials of the generation they are
replacing were all C.D. And the generation before that, Adam Beale's
generation, were all A.B.'s. For the purposes of satire, it's a nice way
of delineating the generations while at the same time robbing people of
their individuality.

> came...does that mean it was all an illusion?
Dammed if I know. It may just be a way of suggesting the general
unreality of this world (ie: nothing holds it up), but I've always felt
there's a more concrete explanation that I'm just missing.

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From: Alex David Groce <adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:11:15 +0000

On Jan 12, 12:06am, William H. Ansley wrote:
> Subject: Re: (urth) Forlesen -- Thoughts?

	Yes, I think this is the heart of the story.  I convinced a friend
who's a financial analyst at a bank to read the BOTNS, and he loved it.  He
bought Castle of Days at a used book store and read it.  I asked what he
thought of Forlesen, and he just grimaced and said "It hits very close to
home."
	Are the shifting columns (I don't have my copy with me) where Forlesen
sees the demon shapes or monsters or whatever?  I always thought that was
simply part of the hell imagery, if so...

Easter would be _Seven American Nights_, I think.  Or perhaps _The Detective of
Dreams_, but the first is my choice...

-- 
"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." - John 8:32
--
Alex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu)
Senior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction)
'98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President
608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce

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From: Kevin J. Maroney <kmaroney at crossover.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:29:24 +0000

At 11:11 AM 1/12/99 -0500, Alex wrote:
>Easter would be _Seven American Nights_, I think.  Or perhaps _The Detective 
>of Dreams_, but the first is my choice...

"Seven American Nights" hands-down. "Detective of Dreams" is a Christian
story, but "Seven American Nights" actually has an Easter procession in it. 

Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction
http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html