Subject: (urth) On Track

From: Alice Turner <al at ny.playboy.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 12:59:14 +0000

[Posted from URTH, a mailing list about Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works]

mantis,

How about a collaboration? Once we figure out the approach.

Re wound: well, yeah, I thought about that, even thought to twit Nutria
about it, but it's mostly described as in the chest (the Min, who seems to
know, says it may be a punctured lung), and only once in the side. But that
would go along with the Gnostic interpretation; a heavenly being sent down
to an imperfect earth to bring knowledge (gnosis) to the chosen.

Your readings are excellent. I'd reject the Changeling reading, however;
Occam's razor (here used to trim whiskers!) is against it, given the
behavior of the robots (who serve only true men), the clothing evidence,
his unfamiliarity with the language (taught rather than learned as a baby),
his discomfort with the food, his understanding of space food and many
other small things. Cim certainly is not trustworthy on anything.

Oh, re that. I read Joan Gordon on "Traveler's Song" (64-66) and while she
is almost comically wrong on the specifics of the story---she gets almost
every one of the animals wrong, a batting average of about .100---she does
include this quote from an interview with Wolfe:

"The protagonist gets his original orientation from a wolf tribe, then
lives in a world in which the roles of moose, lion, deer, mink and so on
are taken by semi-human beings. Wolves are winter symbols, of course, and
birds symbols of spring."

Thus Gordon sees the winged figure on the Great Sleigh as bird rather than
angel. She also, puzzlingly to me, does not seem to think of the Great
Sleigh-ers as off-worlders. Well, they are, so there. She does have a very
good paragraph which goes over some of your points about the theme of the
story being the nature of humanity (66)

But this indicates, pretty clearly to me, that Cim is a mink. Cuttroat
speaks of her beautiful furs and teeth, then the fish and lakes and rivers
are explained, also her inconstancy, and even her murdering her
mate---minks are known to be sort of crazy, and may well go in for spousal
abuse (Fishcatcher has apparently abused her). What I don't quite
understand, then, is her doglike aspects, her groveling to the Sleigh-ers,
her desire to be with them, her saying "I love you" to Cutthroat. I know
that ferrets, which are related, are often tamed. Are minks? I mean really
tamed, not just farmed for furs.

One little point I'd like to make from my glancing through Jack
London---one thing you've emphasized here is the violence, and you compare
that to Lindsay, not without reason. But science fiction as a branch of
fantasy/children's literature is usually both bloodless in any real sense
and sentimental (see Buffalo Gals as opposed to Traveler's Song). London,
on the other hand, is uncompromising and even brutal in his descriptions of
the harsh lives of his dogs and wolves, and if, as I suspect, Wolfe went
back to him for some research on this story, he may have decided to go
beyond Kipling and get tough. The reactions of readers (us anyway) suggest
that it worked. 

-alga-

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From: m.driussi <m.driussi at genie.com>
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 20:45:00 +0000

Reply:  Item #4596281 from URTH at LISTS.BEST.COM@INET03#

alga,

Since Joan Gordon wrote that stuff and I read it years ago,
even though I didn't remember it at the time, I also owe a nod to her
work in deciphering "Tracking Song."  But yeah, aside from mink
(which is a very interesting blend of bear/dog attributes, as well as
adding a ton of "sex appeal" associated with minks) the other animal
guesses seem off.  (Since sexual relations between minks is so brutal
as to render female pelts not usable for fur, this nails down the
issue of "brutality" re: comparing Mantru and Fishcatcher.)

Back to the Changeling reading being destroyed by the robots'
endorsement of Cutthroat as true human.  Maybe, maybe not.  Why favor
the robots without doubts?  Mantru says they can't tell the diff,
which is why they are always bringing him beast females.  Though
Mantru seems to be the dwarf king under the hill, we wonder if he has
any real power at all, since the robots have so much autonomy that
they behave in contrarian ways with impunity.  Is Mantru more than a
living idol?  Nevermind his dreams, what do the robots want?  It
appears that they want to pit creature against creature (Cutthroat,
Cim, and Ketin), either for vicarious bloodjoy of combat or perhaps
as initiation for Cutthroat (who will then see the world as
human/animal) whom they then pit against Mantru.  "Survival of
the fittest" as experiments administered by robots.

(There might be a hint that if Mantru did try to mate with a beast
woman, the robots would take this as a sign that he could no longer
tell the difference and they would kill him.  The robots have a
vested interest in the difference between human and animal.)

Robots who want what, exactly?  Maybe they just want human masters to
serve again?  (Or is this too much like the whole Hierogrammate
"the-created-create-the-creators" thing?)  Or are they making a religion
out of "humanity" which they aspire to become (Jonas-wise evolution),
making Mantru a sort of sacred cow until such time as a better
stronger cow comes along?  (If valid, this is both obviously flawed
as a church yet still touching in its own way.)

On to the names.  Here are a few stray thoughts I had: "Ketin"
reminds me of "etin," which is another word for "giant," and made
sense because Ketin was described as a giant; "Cim" would be
pronounced "Kim" on one side of the dividing line and "Sim" on the
other, but seeing it as "Cim Glowing" (based upon a plant or clouds
or something other than snow?) made me think of "Cimmeria," making me
wonder if "Cim" might be taken as "dark"; "Flashing Aa" (another wolf
female) well, "Aa" is consort to Shamash, fwiw.

Not to put too much into this, but "Red Kluy" (red) ("Cloe"?),
"Flashing Aa" (white), "Cim Glowing" (black).

Re: London's wolf and dog stories, yep, I agree with you.  And Gene
Wolfe merges that animal savagry with the all-to-human Lindsay
savagry to come up with something that says, at one level ala Kafka,
that nature's savagry is an absurd bureaucracy of pointless pain,
suffering, and death.  Crossing circuits, making readers say "Yow."

=mantis=