Digest urth.v022.n047

[wise words about the Beatles deleted :-]

One of the most stimulating and insightful paragraphs I have ever read on the 'net in more years than I care to recall. I would quibble slightly with the exact wording, however. I would suggest that instead - Theists see "non-religious" analogs of Christian (etc.) themes and ideas as "Platonic echoes" - i.e. based in the fundamental ideas at the root of their belief - Atheists see things the other way around - i.e. that religions purloin concepts and stories from "the real world" and integate them (sometime with Really Big Nails :) into their own world view. I must say that the second of these still seems more plausible to me - as an atheistic admirer of both Wolfe and Lafferty - but the distinction is, at least in our lifetimes, purely metaphysical. newt

Oops! Sorry. I forgot that you had said you were limiting your analysis to Oz stuff in these posts. My apologies.

Yep :-)

I don't agree. It may not be exceptionally well defined, but that's because it's a range property. Being tall is a range property. In the context of standard human beings, the property of being tall is a bit fuzzy: it's silly to say 6'4" is tall but 6'3" is not. However, the concept of "being tall" is still useful. You can say that Michael Jordan is tall but Michael Fox is not. Or that your child is "tall for a five year old." Otherwise language is useless.

It depends upon how silly one wishes to be. St. Voyager is like Gun Smoke because they both have guns. You need to have more than just a common word or idea. Here's your challenge then: Find the Christic imagery in Gilligan's Island. After that, the Beverly Hillbillies.

Hmm... I'm not sure I agree with your statement of the theist position. I don't mean to be mean about your reply, it's just that I don't agree with some styles of postmodern analysis wherein all texts contain anything the reader wishes to see. I think that there are interpretations of a text that are wrong, or at least untenable.

Hmm.... I can sell it to you wholesale. Let me talk to the boss... :-) Kieran

On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Kieran Mullen wrote: :>Is "Christic" really a word? :) : : Yep :-) Hey Ma! I learned a new word on the Internet! Seriously, I hadn't known of that word. I just spent a happy couple of hours on the web, exploring the mysteries and the alchaemical aspects of the Christic Expression. Thanks! : It depends upon how silly one wishes to be. St. Voyager is :like Gun Smoke because they both have guns. You need to have :more than just a common word or idea. I've seen some pretty silly comparisons. : Here's your challenge then: Find the Christic imagery in : Gilligan's Island. Oh ho! Few morality plays are more obviously Christic than an episode of Gilligan's Island, cautionary tales which celebrate the Christic Mystery and warn against Atheism. S.S. Minnow = fish symbolism, miracles. The group barely survived the Storm (Wrath of God), but through the Miracle of the Fish, find themselves spared (Mercy of God) and cast onto the Island (Judgement of God). The Fish (Minnow) is also the Vescia Pisces, the group's bridge between divine reality and the reality of the mundane world. Gilligan = Christ. Gilligan was a carpenter (ever notice, he's the only one who built things?) The eternal conciliator, primary logos, humble and empathetic, Sacred Heart, Gilligan/Christ demonstrated to the other islanders (his flock), by example, the principle of Agape Love. Gilligan is the only islander without sin. The white boat hat is his Crown, an exaggerated yarmulke symbolizing his being the King of the Jews (INRI). Island = God. You can't escape the Island. The Island provides for the castaways ("castaway" being a pejorative term for those who have turned their backs on God and The Son). Attempts to leave the Island are punished in the Old Testament way (punishment/coconuts fallind on head), while failure to take The Son seriously tends to yeild a more New Testament result of embarrassed introspection and subsequent reconciliation ("We're sorry we didn't believe you, Gilligan!"). In the series, The Virgin Mary(Anne) kept in her hut a table, or altar, if you will, containing various dear icons and photographs, along with some stones and crystals. This is a clear representation of the Christic Altar, protected by Gilligan/Jesus and Mary(Anne) in episode #54 when the Professor wanted the crystals for his radio. The cave that the castaways occasionally have to hide in (for whatever reason) obviously represents The Sanctuary of Kheper Ra. Other castaways play minor roles of the Seven Deadly Sins - The Skipper (Gluttony, Anger), Mr Howell (Greed/Avarice) [c.f. Jim Backus/Bacchus, "Thirst and Howl" - deep metaphors here!], Lovey (Sloth), and Ginger (Lust). There is great debate whether The Professor merely represents Pride, or is actually a metaphor for Thoth (Office of Christ = Tenure). But the most telling thing, I think, is the final verse of "The Ballad of Gilligan's Island", removed from the broadcast pilot by censors in 1964, which summarizes the rather Baptist "but through me" flavor of the whole show (sing along with me, won't you?) Because I could not stop for Death, He kindly stopped for me; The carriage held but just ourselves And immortality. Here on Gilligan's Isle! : I don't mean to be mean about your reply, it's just :that I don't agree with some styles of postmodern analysis :wherein all texts contain anything the reader wishes to :see. I think that there are interpretations of a text that :are wrong, or at least untenable. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone on this list is mean, least of all you. Even some of the more heated exchanges here yield more light than heat. :) Whether or not I agree with the postmodernists depends on my current degree of cynicysm, and my medication.