{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1437",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1437,
    "subject": "Robert & Marie musings",
    "messages": 2,
    "voices": 2,
    "first": "1999-03-17T13:33:43+00:00",
    "last": "1999-03-17T14:05:42+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0024-0069@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Tony Ellis",
        "address": "tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "1999-03-17T13:33:43+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Robert & Marie musings",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Roy wrote:\n    In the Jungle Garden scene in _Shadow_ the woman refers to the man\nthusly: \"My husband wishes...\" (p-168)\n    However, on the penultimate page of _Claw_, Sev recalls them as \"..the\nwoman and her brother...\" Does Sev's famous memory fail him? Did Wolfe screw\nup?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The latter, I suspect. But, don't forget that there are actually two\nexplanations for what the couple are doing in the Jungle Garden in the\nfirst place: Explanation One, that the twisty turny paths of the Garden\ntwist through time as well as space, and Explanation Two that these are\nactually people from Severian's own time, who are simply \"chant-caught\".\nIf Explanation Two is the right one, then the couple really could be\nbrother and sister, and just think that they are husband and wife - in\nwhich case Sev (and Wolfe) are still right on both counts."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Alga wrote:\nJohn Bishop, corncrake,\n\nYou are certainly onto something! Here's just a thought, taken from the\nBritannica: the explorer-missionary David Livingston's father-in-law, Robert\nMoffat, was also a missionary to Africa."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Nice idea, but still too long ago to pass my \"mail plane\" argument. We\nneed to be thinking 1930s or later, I say. And maybe not much later:\nstudying art in Paris, 3-prop mail planes and taking quinine-water for\nmalaria all have a pretty pre-60's feel about them.\n\nThis is lots of fun, but in a way I hope we -don't- find out who the\ncouple are. I've always loved this episode for its haunting strangeness:\nwe're in a world so far in the future we can barely imagine it, and here\nin a hut in the botanic gardens are two people from our own time talking\nabout Paris and reading Deuteronomy. Do we want this explained away?"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0024-0070@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Peter Stephenson",
        "address": "pws at ibmth.df.unipi.it"
      },
      "date": "1999-03-17T14:05:42+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) Robert & Marie musings",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0024-0069@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "\"Tony Ellis\" wrote:\nThis is lots of fun, but in a way I hope we -don't- find out who the\ncouple are. I've always loved this episode for its haunting strangeness:\nwe're in a world so far in the future we can barely imagine it, and here\nin a hut in the botanic gardens are two people from our own time talking\nabout Paris and reading Deuteronomy. Do we want this explained away?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "It's not even quite Deuteronomy.  The original biblical quotation is about\nMoses, who isn't mentioned by name in what they're reading --- I forget the\nterm used, it's some generic SF grand-sounding title.\n\nThis brings up the question of language.  Severian can understand them, and\ndoesn't speak English, French or Zulu; it seems the language used by the\nthree is the local one, with the added touch that the bible comes out a bit\nweird.  Everything in this passage adds weirdness by the bucketload.  I\ndon't think we need to worry too much about it being explained away.\n\ncorncrake"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}