Subject: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v003.n013

From: Alice Turner <al at interport.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:32:28 +0000

[Posted from URTH, a mailing list about Gene Wolfe's New Sun and other works]

Hmmmm. 

mantis, I don't think Cutthroat or the Sleigh-ers are bent on a vegetarian
democracy (yes, I know you were joking, but I'm making a point). When they
lay taboos/wisdom on the Panigaku, they counsel them to beware of the
birds' eggs in the nests that have adapted to the snow-bowed boughs, they
don't tell them to stop their traditional hunting. One would assume their
advice to the other meat-eaters was similar. Only Cutthroat himself sees
the prey animals in human form, and I cannot see dietary habits radically
changing. (It's the Panigaku, who do not, so far as I know, attack deer, 
who are seen walking with "Lenizee and his wife and child," not the
Wiggikki!)

I think this is sort of important, in re your very interesting comparison
with creepy technology on Urth. With all our talk of violence on this
planet, we've never once addressed the workaday, straightforward butchery,
on a truly large scale, that Silk and the mayteras and other pateras on the
Whorl engage in. I've certainly thought about it--in a longago post I
speculated on the sacrifices as a practical way of getting protein to the
poor. But it's certainly a point worth making that you (in particular) have
made a point of the violence on this planet, comparing it to Lindsay (I do
not disagree, though I did defend survival killing), but all of us have
more or less cooed over Silk (as opposed to Sevarian), who performs
large-scale butchery routinely. The difference is only in the way the
author describes them. No matter how Ratty may identify in guild-brother
mode with Silk, I'll bet he'd be rattled at having to take knife in hand
each Sabbath for such a task.

-alga-

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From: Patri10629 <patri10629 at aol.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 21:14:34 +0000

Buds,

Nothing to add. Just wanted to thank Alga for her concern about my wife. She
may or may not contribute to the group. She's all but recovered and I dare
say would be as intimidated as I before venturing an addition to the Whorl
group. Don't let this inhibit you in the least! Think on dear Wolfites!
Wolfeans? Wolfers?

best

Patrick

homepage:
http://members.aol.com/patri10629/index.html

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From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:54:05 +0000

Mean Ole Alga writes:

 No matter how Ratty may identify in guild-brother
>each Sabbath for such a task.

	Sure. I live in the New Covenant, which Silk is bringing. 
	Maybe there IS a shadow of this transition in "Tracking Song." If Cordo
Smith had written it, I'd have no doubt, since the same transition is in
"Scanners Live in Vain." But try this out:
	Age of Cold // Old Covenant, with animal sacrifices
	Age of Warmth // New Covenant, when these are replaced by bread and wine
	Transition = a new sun (Sun)
	Old men // priests of Old Covenant
	Old men perverted // scribes and pharisees
	Servants of old men (robots) // levites
	New men (Great Sleight) // new pastors of New Covenant

	Someone noted that Cutthroat is creating bonds among these estranged
underpeople: Cim with Ketin, the Pammaguka with the Wiggikki toward the
end, etc. He has ALREADY died and come back to life, and now goes to join
the Great Sleight where winged men (angels) are = ascension of Christ? If
it were 40 days instead of just 19....  (19 from Sufism?)

	Just some thoughts. As I said, with Smith this would be obvious; with
Wolfe....

	Oh, and Mantis: cold and meat: Cutthroat does remark toward the end that
he'd really like some meat and especially some fat.

	Finally to Mantis: I can't deny some parallels between "Tracking Song" and
Severian, but I think virtually everything Wolfe wrote before Severian
finds its way into Severian (stuff from "Fifth Head," for instance). But
you did say that the first draft of Severian had alredy been written. Hmmm.

Nutria