# Digest urth.v003.n013 *The Urth list — 3 messages, 3 voices, 10 Aug 1997* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Alice Turner *10 Aug 1997, 14:32* Hmmmm. mantis, I don't think Cutthroat or the Sleigh-ers are bent on a vegetarian democracy (yes, I know you were joking, but I'm making a point). When they lay taboos/wisdom on the Panigaku, they counsel them to beware of the birds' eggs in the nests that have adapted to the snow-bowed boughs, they don't tell them to stop their traditional hunting. One would assume their advice to the other meat-eaters was similar. Only Cutthroat himself sees the prey animals in human form, and I cannot see dietary habits radically changing. (It's the Panigaku, who do not, so far as I know, attack deer, who are seen walking with "Lenizee and his wife and child," not the Wiggikki!) I think this is sort of important, in re your very interesting comparison with creepy technology on Urth. With all our talk of violence on this planet, we've never once addressed the workaday, straightforward butchery, on a truly large scale, that Silk and the mayteras and other pateras on the Whorl engage in. I've certainly thought about it--in a longago post I speculated on the sacrifices as a practical way of getting protein to the poor. But it's certainly a point worth making that you (in particular) have made a point of the violence on this planet, comparing it to Lindsay (I do not disagree, though I did defend survival killing), but all of us have more or less cooed over Silk (as opposed to Sevarian), who performs large-scale butchery routinely. The difference is only in the way the author describes them. No matter how Ratty may identify in guild-brother mode with Silk, I'll bet he'd be rattled at having to take knife in hand each Sabbath for such a task. -alga- --- ### Patri10629 *10 Aug 1997, 21:14 · follows Alice Turner* Buds, Nothing to add. Just wanted to thank Alga for her concern about my wife. She may or may not contribute to the group. She's all but recovered and I dare say would be as intimidated as I before venturing an addition to the Whorl group. Don't let this inhibit you in the least! Think on dear Wolfites! Wolfeans? Wolfers? best Patrick homepage: http://members.aol.com/patri10629/index.html --- ### Jim Jordan *10 Aug 1997, 22:54 · follows Patri10629* Mean Ole Alga writes: No matter how Ratty may identify in guild-brother > mode with Silk, I'll bet he'd be rattled at having to take knife in hand > each Sabbath for such a task. Sure. I live in the New Covenant, which Silk is bringing. Maybe there IS a shadow of this transition in "Tracking Song." If Cordo Smith had written it, I'd have no doubt, since the same transition is in "Scanners Live in Vain." But try this out: Age of Cold // Old Covenant, with animal sacrifices Age of Warmth // New Covenant, when these are replaced by bread and wine Transition = a new sun (Sun) Old men // priests of Old Covenant Old men perverted // scribes and pharisees Servants of old men (robots) // levites New men (Great Sleight) // new pastors of New Covenant Someone noted that Cutthroat is creating bonds among these estranged underpeople: Cim with Ketin, the Pammaguka with the Wiggikki toward the end, etc. He has ALREADY died and come back to life, and now goes to join the Great Sleight where winged men (angels) are = ascension of Christ? If it were 40 days instead of just 19.... (19 from Sufism?) Just some thoughts. As I said, with Smith this would be obvious; with Wolfe.... Oh, and Mantis: cold and meat: Cutthroat does remark toward the end that he'd really like some meat and especially some fat. Finally to Mantis: I can't deny some parallels between "Tracking Song" and Severian, but I think virtually everything Wolfe wrote before Severian finds its way into Severian (stuff from "Fifth Head," for instance). But you did say that the first draft of Severian had alredy been written. Hmmm. Nutria ---