{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1476",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1476,
    "subject": "Butter-fingered Annese Under Every Bed? Or Just 17 Big Brothers?",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1999-04-02T21:18:11+00:00",
    "last": "1999-04-02T21:18:11+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0024-0135@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Mitchell A. Bailey",
        "address": "mab at lindau.net"
      },
      "date": "1999-04-02T21:18:11+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Butter-fingered Annese Under Every Bed? Or Just 17 Big Brothers?",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "In Reference to Robert Borski's \"Ascians\" of 3/29/99\n\nI made much the same objections to the first draft of Mr. Borski's\nhypothesis when he published it on his Web site. Since Dan Rabin has\nstated them more elegantly, I'll try not to be redundant. I raised a\npoint about manual dexterity, to which I guess the remarks on that issue\nare addressed. I could also bear down on the drastic difference in\ncircumstances: the dwarves ride allies, the Shadow Children ride\nprisoners. In fact, there are several passages in 5HC which are\nstrikingly parallel to B/UNS, but I don't necessarily think the\nrelationship is one of identity of milieu.\n\nI would venture to say that a hypothesis like \"Ascian = Annese\nImmigrant\" needs some firmer support, indeed a reason to exist. I\nbelieve in an Occam's Razor/KISS approach to these matters. What is\nexplained by this hypothesis which could not otherwise be explained?\nDoes the hypothesis simplify understanding or introduce an unwarranted\ncomplication? That is my basic objection. \n\nPerhaps, as Mr. Rabin hinted, the two occurences of this image indicate\nnot an identity, but possibly parallel allusions to some sort of symbol\nor common cultural motif (e.g. \"Oz\" references). Is something relevant\nsymbolized or evoked by the image of men riding the shoulders of other\nmen? Maybe that's what needs to be explored. \n\nI had also pointed out that the alzabo may not have any relationship\nwith the Annese ghoul-bear, but they were probably both manifestations\nof a big ugly stinking carrion beast which lurks in the back of beyond\nof Mr. Wolfe's imagination. The alzabo is important to the story in BNS,\nbut the ghoul-bear seems to be merely background to provide texture for\n5HC.\n\nI think that Wolfe conceived of Ascia as Orwell's Oceania from _1984_\ncarried to the ultimate degree. The Ascians do not merely speak\nNewspeak, but are limited to quotes from \"The Group of Seventeen's\nLittle Red Book\". Yet the boot stamping on the human face has failed\nafter millenia to totally stamp out the humanity. Wolfe is much more\noptimistic than Orwell was. In my view, to postulate that Ascians are\nfrom another planet detracts from that idea.\n\nAs an aside: I've always found the manual dexterity attribute of the\nAnnese kind of troubling. For one thing, it isn't consistently applied.\nHow can a race which can allegedly craft fishing nets be inherently\nincapable of using a shovel? How can a race too clumsy to use tools even\nsurvive? Even chimpanzees use simple tools. \nI suspect that the Annese Manual Dexterity Issue is one of those Wolfean\nSmoking Chekov's Guns which has deep implications going to the very\ntheme of the story (in this case 5HC). It says something fundamental\nabout the nature of the Annese and deserves closer study."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}