{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1479", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1479, "subject": "Demons & Dragons", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1999-04-04T04:38:00+00:00", "last": "1999-04-04T05:57:41+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "m.driussi", "address": "m.driussi at genie.com" }, "date": "1999-04-04T04:38:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Demons & Dragons", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Roy,\n\nI can't tell if you read the part of my posting that had to do with\nthe time Severian tried to heal all the wounded in the tent at once.\nSo for one last time, I'll try a different example that happens much\nlater.\n\nOn the Ship Severian comes upon a murdered steward (V, ch. 6). He\ntries to resurrect the steward and the entire Ship experiences a\npower blackout as a result. At the very least this is an\nillustration of not only the \"energy circuit\" involved with\nSeverian's superhuman power, but also the tremendous energies\nrequired for a resurrection (normally supplied by the white\nfountain--and where is =that= energy coming from?).\n\nYet it might be worse than that: if you will allow a little\ninterpretation of the chapters which follow. It seems likely that\nthe mutiny he finds when the lights come on was triggered by the\nblackout. And the mysterious winged being? It seems quite possible\nthat it is not a jiber, but the opposite: in Beowulf terms, it is the\nDragon, of course; but in biological terms it is the antibody (the\nShip has been violated by the blackout); and in Original Star Trek\nterms it is the mother-of-all-redshirts.\n\nSo! Severian's attempt to heal one man results in a full scale\nmutiny and the release of the emergency defense demon which\nsuccessfully kills Severian.\n\nYes, I am asserting that Severian's Narrative is \"The Cold Equations\"\n(that is, the situation is \"Periodic Table of Elements\" rather than\n\"Let's bamboozle the lower life forms!\") writ very, very large, and\nwithout any of the lame loopholes. Little Severian is blasted for\nrunning toward the ring; big Severian is killed for trying to\nresurrect a dead stranger. It is all a fool-destroying, deathtrap\nmaze, and Severian himself dies again and again, yet from time to\ntime he still tries to help as many strangers as he can (or in\nanother sense maybe he is just a very slow learner). Personally I\ndon't think that the denizens of Yesod can do any more than they are\ndoing to help; and of course the enemies of the New Sun have the best\nintentions as well (prevent megadeath and the destruction of Urth by\npromoting slavery and the long slow death).\n\nAnd yes, I agree with you that Severian is an antihero.\n\nBut maybe I'm missing your point.\n\nYes, I must be.\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Roy C. Lackey", "address": "rclackey at stic.net" }, "date": "1999-04-04T05:57:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Demons & Dragons", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis,\n\n Yes, I read your earlier post carefully and thought about it; part of\nthe reason I waited two days before replying. Perhaps in trying to be brief\nI didn't make myself clear. Both of the examples you cited (lazaret and\nsteward), as well as others where Sev tried and failed to revive the dead,\ncame before his trial and the \"birth\" of the New Sun. After that he has no\nproblems raising the dead, even when he's not trying (the dead assassin).\nHe's a walking miracle machine. He can move through space (from Nessus to\nthe stone town) and time, heal the sick, raise the dead, tame wild animals,\nsurvive mortal injuries, and breathe under water. If he doesn't do those\nthings I mentioned earlier (Thecla, his mother) it's because Wolfe doesn't\nwant him to, not because he can't.\n\n In the instances where he does raise the dead, both before and after the\nNew Sun, the outcomes seem to be negative, some more precipitously than\nothers. Even in the cases that are not almost immediately disastrous (e.g.\nZama and the dead assassin), the apparent successes (e.g. Dorcas,\nMiles/Jonas) aren't happy with their revival. Even his dog runs away.\n\n The final chapters of _Urth_ are devoted largely to tidying up loose\nplot ends, most occasioned by the time-travel paradoxes, to fulfill what\notherwise might be termed \"prophesies\" (Typhon and The Conciliator,\nApu-Punchau). Sev shows up in the future about an hour before the big flood\nhits the House Absolute. What timing! Why not some time during the fifty\nyears that have elapsed since he left on Tzadkiel's ship, when there was no\nchance of encountering another version of himself? (In keeping with the\ncondition that he can't come too close to himself.) He could have prepared\nUrth's inhabitants, saved people. Nope. Not because he couldn't but because\nWolfe didn't want him to. It's that simple.\n\n Hey, it's Wolfe's story; not mine. But the points I have raised fall, I\nbelieve, within the parameters of possibility consistent with Sev's\nuniverse(s) as portrayed in the New Sun books.\n\n And I'm not even going to mention the most glaring paradox. It takes\ntime for the white fountain to get to Urth's sun. It was on its way as far\nback in time as Apu-Punchau. Therefore it had to have been in the heavens on\nthe day Sev was born. In fact, it was around for his whole life. Only it\nwasn't. But it had to be. That's why I'm not going to mention it. \n\nRoy" } ] } ] }