Sev as anti-hero

Roy C. Lackey06 Apr 1999, 00:08original

On 4-4-99 Alex David Groce wrote: <snip>

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However, I don't think he means us to reject these figures--rather, to see ourselves in them, with veins of dark and light. A picture of a (to sue the religious terms that are relevant) sinful but redeemable man. And I think

it's clear that there IS moral growth in Severian throughout the BOTNS. The final talk with Palaemon, in my opinion, establishes that for the pre-Urth Severian, at least.<< Oh, I agree he makes moral progress. I said much the same thing in an off-list e-mail to someone here. But I still do not like Sev and have trouble seeing him as Everyman--even a dark Everyman. Silk, Weer, and the other figures you mention are much more sympathetic figures, whatever their flaws, because they come closer to Everyman than Sev. They do not wield the powers, temporal or supernatural, that Sev does. They do not have his capacity for doing harm. mantis used the term "anti-hero" and I have to agree with it. I could never identify with Sev, as I could with Weer or Green or Silk or Free's boarders. Roy

Alex David Groce06 Apr 1999, 10:28original

↳ follows, by subject match Roy C. Lackey

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On Apr 6, 12:08am, Roy C. Lackey wrote: Oh, I agree he makes moral progress. I said much the same thing in an off-list e-mail to someone here. But I still do not like Sev and have trouble seeing him as Everyman--even a dark Everyman. Silk, Weer, and the other figures you mention are much more sympathetic figures, whatever their flaws, because they come closer to Everyman than Sev. They do not wield the powers, temporal or supernatural, that Sev does. They do not have his capacity for doing harm. mantis used the term "anti-hero" and I have to agree with it. I could never identify with Sev, as I could with Weer or Green or Silk or Free's boarders.

I won't argue that Severian is easy to identify with; as to Silk, I would place him in another category of Wolfe's protagonists. Green is somewhere in the middle--not as dark as Severian (or even Weer), but not an almost saintly (and likable--which is hard to portray) fellow like Silk. I'm just not sure anti-hero is the right term for Severian. It seems to me that in the end he stumbles to glory, at any rate, and that's not just an accident--the Hierodules choose him because he does, in the end, get the job done. Of course, this depends on your interpretation of the last pages of Urth.

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." - John 8:32 -- Alex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu) Senior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction) '98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President 608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366 http://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce

Kevin J. Maroney12 Apr 1999, 19:36original

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At 12:08 AM 4/6/99 -0500, Roy wrote: But I still do not like Sev and have trouble seeing him as Everyman--even a dark Everyman. Silk, Weer, and the other figures you mention are much more sympathetic figures, whatever their flaws, because they come closer to Everyman than Sev. They do not wield the powers, temporal or supernatural, that Sev does. They do not have his capacity for doing harm. mantis used the term "anti-hero" and I have to agree with it. I could never identify with Sev, as I could with Weer or Green or Silk or Free's boarders.

Considering the trail of dead bodies Weer leaves behind him, I'm not sure that I want to identify with Weer. Wolfe's protagonists are not admirable or likable people, for the most part (the "Free" quartet being a very pleasant exception). Wombat, a.k.a. Kevin Maroney kmaroney at crossover.com Kitchen Staff Supervisor, New York Review of Science Fiction http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html

Alex David Groce12 Apr 1999, 21:09original

↳ follows, by subject match Kevin J. Maroney

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On Apr 12, 7:36pm, Kevin J. Maroney wrote: Subject: Re: (urth) Sev as anti-hero At 12:08 AM 4/6/99 -0500, Roy wrote:

But I still do not like Sev and have trouble seeing him as Everyman--even a dark Everyman. Silk, Weer, and the other figures you mention are much more sympathetic figures, whatever their flaws, because they come closer to Everyman than Sev. They do not wield the powers, temporal or supernatural, that Sev does. They do not have his capacity for doing harm. mantis used the term "anti-hero" and I have to agree with it. I could never identify with Sev, as I could with Weer or Green or Silk or Free's boarders.

Well, some of us aren't convinced that Weer is reponsible for anyone's death other than (A) the boy on the stairs, and that's not exactly murder and (B) maybe (there is someting sinister about it at any rate) the frozen-freezer guy. I think the "Weer as mass murder" hypothesis is most likely nonsense.

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