{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1532", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1532, "subject": "Various and sundry matters", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "1999-04-13T13:46:51+00:00", "last": "1999-04-14T00:19:47+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu" }, "date": "1999-04-13T13:46:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Various and sundry matters", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Re: Weer\n\n\tFirst, I'd like to welcome Ed van der Winden to the list. You\ndefinitely have some interesting insights into PEACE, although I think I'm\ngoing to disagree with them somewhat.\n\tThe name and new axe simply don't convince me of the repetition\ntheory--my model of PEACE is more purgatorial than infernal (your idea sounds a\nlittle like Flann O'Brien's THE THIRD POLICEMAN, which I strongly recommend as\none of the best afterlife fantasies). I still think the nailed down notes\nindicate aspects of Weer's past he HAS come to terms with--the stories are all\nleft unfinished because (A) in our lives, stories don't have tidy endings, they\ndrift into each other and are left with open parenthesis as the various\ncharacters unexpectedly die or move or grow uninterested and (B) the real\n\"completion\" of Weer's stories is his letting go of them and moving on to\nsomething else (\"peace\"). The strongest, for me anyway, indication that Weer\ndoes (literally) \"escape from his skull\" is the scene of the Sidhe, which is\none of my favorite passages in Wolfe's writing.\n\tI think you're correct (as I've said before) in discounting the Wer as\nmass-murderer theory, and since I'm convinced Weer does find \"peace\" I'm not as\ninclined to search for a damning incident he's hidden. His life as it is seems\nplenty to keep him from immediately storming the gates of heaven, although I\nthink he is a decent man at heart. However, I'm going to reread some and think\nabout the suggestion that he killed Smart. Wolfe's \"trying to remember who\nkilled who in that book\" suggests there's more than one hidden crime in PEACE,\nand the motive makes sense, and it would explain the weirdness of Weer's\ncomment that Smart is the central character. The knife is possibly a red\nherring on this, though--Wolfe's essay on PEACE in CASTLE OF DAYS suggests to\nme that the knife is there as a link to Wolfe himself, which is a fairly common\ntrick of his. I still think the best explanation for the \"Smart as central\ncharacter\" line is simply that PEACE is a book about how Weer's story is really\neveryone else's story--and by implication that this is so for all of us.\n\nTime loop:\n\tNice idea. The support is really tenuous, but that's not uncommon\nhere. It extends the \"Self-supporting Severian\" to the extreme. The\nBaldanders analogy may be reversed though--Wolfe's always defended Severian as\nnot being a devilish figure--so perhaps instead of separating himself from the\nIncreate, Severian is a creation out of nothing (with a mother from within the\n\"time stream\" or what you will) inserted by the Increate, either directly or\nthrough Hierodules, etc. \n\nSex in Wolfe:\n\tFirst, I want to defend Father Inire--I think he's clearly modeled on\nLewis Carroll, hence his association with little girls. And if so, I'd say\nthat like Carroll, there's no evidence he ever did anything improper at all,\nwhatever possible sexual inclinations he might have had.\n\tIn general, it seems to me that Wolfe's various uses of sexuality are\nto (A) in the book of the New Sun indicate the culture and morality of\nSeverian's world and of Severian himself--and others, IE nasty old Baldanders\nand (B) in general it doesn't seem that Wolfe's works are over-sexed. Weer adn\nSherry Gold isn't exactly child-molestation, although it's possibly statutory\nrape. It's a powerful insight into Weer and Sherry. Wolfe uses prostitues,\nwhorehouses, and various other themes no more than most other serious 20th\ncentury authors seeking to portray human life in its complexity--in fact, one\nnice thing about the BOTNS is that rather than the usual slightly titilating\nand adolescent treatment of sex, it's an adult look at desire in it's\ncomplexity. Wolfe uses sexual themes for roughly the reasons Nabokov,\nFaulkner, Kafka and Joyce.\n\nA Side Note:\n\tI found a quotation from J. M. Barrie that would make a great epigraph\nfor the whole Island/Doctor/Death set of stories:\n\n\t\"To be born is to be wrecked on an island.\"\n\n\tBarrie, of course, wrote \"Peter Pan\" which is (I'd say) a direct\ninflunce on the three major island stories, as well as THE major influence on\n\"The Changeling.\" Not to mention \"Mary Rose's\" prominent place in Seven\nAmerican Nights." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.\" - John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu)\nSenior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction)\n'98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President\n608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366\nhttp://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "CRCulver", "address": "crculver at aol.com" }, "date": "1999-04-14T00:11:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Various and sundry matters", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alex Groce said:\n<< Wolfe's \"trying to remember who killed who in that book\" suggests there's \nmore than one hidden crime in PEACE>>\n\nWasn't he talking about OPERATION ARES with that comment? I'm not sure.\n\nOn the other hand, he was very tight-lipped when someone asked if Weer killed \nthe librarian and buried her body in the bed of the stream. If it was truly \nan implausible notion, I suspect Wolfe would have immediately discounted it.\n\n- Christopher Culver" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu" }, "date": "1999-04-14T00:19:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Various and sundry matters", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 13, 8:11pm, CRCulver at aol.com wrote:\nSubject: Re: (urth) Various and sundry matters\nAlex Groce said:\n<< Wolfe's \"trying to remember who killed who in that book\" suggests there's \nmore than one hidden crime in PEACE>>\n\nWasn't he talking about OPERATION ARES with that comment? I'm not sure.\n\nOn the other hand, he was very tight-lipped when someone asked if Weer killed \nthe librarian and buried her body in the bed of the stream. If it was truly \nan implausible notion, I suspect Wolfe would have immediately discounted it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tI'm pretty sure the \"I'm trying to remember who killed who\" was re:\nPEACE. Although it was an online interview, so there was some chaos and\nconfusion in the transcript. Nobody asked anything about OPERATION ARES (for\nwhich I'm sure Wolfe was thankful...) I haven't read anything where he clams\nup about Weer/Lois. Remember which interview it's from?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.\" - John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu)\nSenior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction)\n'98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President\n608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366\nhttp://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce" } ] } ] }