{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1539", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1539, "subject": "_Peace_ as history", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "1999-04-13T22:56:58+00:00", "last": "1999-04-14T11:12:20+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Rabin", "address": "danrabin at a.crl.com" }, "date": "1999-04-13T22:56:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) _Peace_ as history", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A lot of the recent commentary here on _Peace_ has centered on Weer's life\nstory: was he a murderer, was he a sad man, what unfulfilled task leads to\nthe persistence of his ghost, and so on. I myself get pleasure from the\nway in which Weer is a witness to a remarkable slice of American history.\nI'm an urban history buff, and the progress of Cassionville from small\nmidwestern town to the home of a big orange-drink plant has a lot of\nresonance for me. As do the connections with the aboriginal inhabitants,\nboth via the mythologized ladies-club version of the settlement of the\ntown, and via the skull in the cave. As does the progression from the\nrailway and trolley journeys of Weer's childhood to the encroachment and\neventual dominance of cars. Wolfe reminds us that all these enormous\nchanges happened within a single lifetime.\n\nWeer is less vivid a character to me than Aunt Olivia, her suitors, the\nlibrarian, and Louis and Sherry Gold. His main function, perhaps, is to\n*remember*. He doesn't seem very remarkable, either as a child, or as Ron\nGold's officemate, or as a slick old company president. Sometimes I think\nthat _Peace_ is *not his story, primarily*, that the great tale of Irish\nand Dutch and other and later European invaders turfing out the Indians and\nturning potatoes into orange drink is a bigger story than one man's life.\n\nOr just maybe _Peace_ is a Book of Gold, brought forth by the fictionizer\nGene Wolfe to fill a need just as the forger Louis Gold rationalizes that\nhe does with his forgeries. Perhaps his claim that the Venus de Milo is a\nforgery is a shock-tactic to get us to question the role of authentic\nprovenance in evaluating art. Does it *matter* whether _Peace_ is a\nreminiscence by a man, or a plausible fiction by a Weer-Wolfe?*\n\nWhich pondering leads me to inquire whether other contributors here have\nnoticed how often Wolfe embeds the fictional source of his writing in the\nwork itself? From Severian to Latro to Eyebem to the protagonists of\n\"Feather Tigers\" and of \"Tracking Song\" to Horn, I find it notable how\noften Wolfe shows us the origin of the story we're reading. He does this\nso much that I read the first three volumes of _Long Sun_ thinking \"Ah, a\nrefreshing change--third person omniscient!\" And then the entry for \"Horn\"\nin the list of names at the beginning of _Exodus_, and later, Horn's own\nentry as narrator, reminded me with whom I was dealing...\n\n -- Dan Rabin\n\n*Readers may wish to decide for themselves whether _Peace_ more closely\nfills the role of the _Necronomicon_ or _The Lusty Lawyer_. Any avid\nafficionados of alliteration and assonance out there?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Alex David Groce", "address": "adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu" }, "date": "1999-04-14T11:12:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) _Peace_ as history", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Apr 13, 10:56pm, Dan Rabin wrote:\nSubject: (urth) _Peace_ as history\nA lot of the recent commentary here on _Peace_ has centered on Weer's life\nstory: was he a murderer, was he a sad man, what unfulfilled task leads to\nthe persistence of his ghost, and so on. I myself get pleasure from the\nway in which Weer is a witness to a remarkable slice of American history.\nI'm an urban history buff, and the progress of Cassionville from small\nmidwestern town to the home of a big orange-drink plant has a lot of\nresonance for me. As do the connections with the aboriginal inhabitants,\nboth via the mythologized ladies-club version of the settlement of the\ntown, and via the skull in the cave. As does the progression from the\nrailway and trolley journeys of Weer's childhood to the encroachment and\neventual dominance of cars. Wolfe reminds us that all these enormous\nchanges happened within a single lifetime.\n\nWeer is less vivid a character to me than Aunt Olivia, her suitors, the\nlibrarian, and Louis and Sherry Gold. His main function, perhaps, is to\n*remember*. He doesn't seem very remarkable, either as a child, or as Ron\nGold's officemate, or as a slick old company president. Sometimes I think\nthat _Peace_ is *not his story, primarily*, that the great tale of Irish\nand Dutch and other and later European invaders turfing out the Indians and\nturning potatoes into orange drink is a bigger story than one man's life.\n\nOr just maybe _Peace_ is a Book of Gold, brought forth by the fictionizer\nGene Wolfe to fill a need just as the forger Louis Gold rationalizes that\nhe does with his forgeries. Perhaps his claim that the Venus de Milo is a\nforgery is a shock-tactic to get us to question the role of authentic\nprovenance in evaluating art. Does it *matter* whether _Peace_ is a\nreminiscence by a man, or a plausible fiction by a Weer-Wolfe?*\n\nWhich pondering leads me to inquire whether other contributors here have\nnoticed how often Wolfe embeds the fictional source of his writing in the\nwork itself? From Severian to Latro to Eyebem to the protagonists of\n\"Feather Tigers\" and of \"Tracking Song\" to Horn, I find it notable how\noften Wolfe shows us the origin of the story we're reading. He does this\nso much that I read the first three volumes of _Long Sun_ thinking \"Ah, a\nrefreshing change--third person omniscient!\" And then the entry for \"Horn\"\nin the list of names at the beginning of _Exodus_, and later, Horn's own\nentry as narrator, reminded me with whom I was dealing...\n\n -- Dan Rabin\n\n*Readers may wish to decide for themselves whether _Peace_ more closely\nfills the role of the _Necronomicon_ or _The Lusty Lawyer_. Any avid\nafficionados of alliteration and assonance out there?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\tHistory as the main character--I like that--and it would be one answer\nto why the stories don't end... It fits the idea that PEACE is a story about a\nman whose story is actually everyone else's story. It's also interesting to\nconsider what kind of changes Cassionville has gone through by the time Weer's\ntree has become as large as the first chapter suggests...\n\n\tThere are even more examples of the \"explained document\" by Wolfe: the\ncentral portion of \"Seven American Nights,\" \"'A Story,' by John V. Marsch\" from\n5HC, \"The Last Thrilling Wonder Story,\" and other examples in less memorable\nstories. In BOTNS, of course, and the Latro books it's partly for the sake of\nincluding Wolfe himself--like Hitchcock, he has a tendency to hide himself\nsomewhere in the story (the narrator's name in 5th Head, himself as the\ntranslator for BOTNS and the Latro books, the strong similarities to parts of\nhis own life in PEACE, etc.--I can't think of a Long Sun example). Beyond\nthat, I'm not sure what the deeper reasons for the obsession with making\nstories that are \"real documents\" are, although it certainly works well.\nNabokov did the same thing--PALE FIRE (especially) and to some extent LOLITA\nseem to be ABOUT the fact that they're \"real\" documents, to some extent... But\nsince Wolfe didn't become a Nabokov fan until well after starting it himself\nit's not a direct influence. Perhaps a similar concern with artificiality,\nauthenticity, and layers of text that verify themselves, even if we know they\nare in fact fictions." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "\"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.\" - John 8:32\n--\nAlex David Groce (adgroce at eos.ncsu.edu)\nSenior (Computer Science/Multidisciplinary Studies in Technology & Fiction)\n'98-99 NCSU AITP Student Chapter President\n608 Charleston Road, Apt. 1E (919)-233-7366\nhttp://www4.ncsu.edu/~adgroce" } ] } ] }