{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1644", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1644, "subject": "Jonas", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1999-05-26T13:29:21+00:00", "last": "1999-05-26T16:36:47+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1999-05-26T13:29:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Jonas", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Because it's been slow lately, I hereby offer UNDINES Excerpt 6:\n\nCyborg Jonas, like so many of the characters in New Sun, represents a\ncomposite figure, being in part based on Hans Christian Anderson's \"The Tin\nSoldier,\" and in part on L. Frank Baum's Tin Woodsman. But what about\nJonas's human side? Are there archetypes or literary forebears that Wolfe\ndraws upon to amplify this aspect of his character? I believe there are,\nand that each, while incorporating the notion of wandering as expiation,\nplays off Severian's Christlike persona. For in many respects, Jonas, who\nhas been traveling up and down the seven continents of the world, looking\nto reconnect with the Hierodules, and \"tinkering with clumsy mechanisms,\"\nembodies the figure of Ahasuerus the Wandering Jew. Ahasuerus, we recall,\nwas alleged to have mocked Christ on his journey to Calvary and was\ntherefore condemned to wander the earth until the Second Coming. Severian,\nrepresenting Christ, has not only come again, but been befriended by\nAhasuerus/Jonas--an act of redemption by the latter that finally liberates\nhim from exile; like Dorothy now, he can return home, and does so via\nFather Inire's mirrors. \n\nBut Jonas's admission about \"tinkering with clumsy devices\" also recalls\nthe Gypsies--aka *tinkers*--who according to legend have been condemned to\neternal wandering because they provided the nails for Christ's crucifixion.\nGiven as well the Gypsies' traditional association with metalworking, is it\npossible the grinder who at one time attempts to sharpen Terminus Est is\nsomehow connected with Jonas? The grinder, who has been encountered by\nSeverian and Dorcas north of Thrax, is part of a \"caravan of tinkers and\npeddlers,\" but becomes frightened when he lifts the mercury-filled blade.\nNow recall Severian's words when he first attempts to do the same: \"She\nshifted as though I wrestled a serpent.\" Or to put it another way, *as if\nthe metal were alive.* Could this then be Wolfe at his most ironic, hinting\nthat this peripatetic tinker who's afraid of \"living metal\" is somehow\nrelated to cyborg Jonas, who also embodies living metal? A further\nconnection might be found in Miles's razor, which Severian describes as\n\"one of those little blades that country people use, razors their smiths\ngrind from the halves of worn oxshoes.\" It may even have been made by the\naforesaid tinker. Yet another possiblility still: the grinder may be the\nhuman killed when Jonas's landing ship crashes, and from whom he harvests\nhis organic parts. But how can this be? Hasn't the crash in question taken\nplace in the past, thereby vitiating this supposition? Not necessarily. For\nisn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? And wouldn't\nhis sense of time, like that of his creators, run counter to ours? This\nwould allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future, harvested what\nhe needed from the killed tinker, and then lived his life backwards (at\nleast from our frame of reference) until the point he encounters Severian,\nwho assists him in his quest to return home, thereby ending his long period\nof exile. \n\nAhasuerus, in other words, apparently never read Thomas Wolfe.\n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1999-05-26T16:36:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jonas", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, 26 May 1999, Robert Borski wrote:\nYet another possiblility still: the grinder may be the\nhuman killed when Jonas's landing ship crashes, and from whom he harvests\nhis organic parts. But how can this be? Hasn't the crash in question taken\nplace in the past, thereby vitiating this supposition? Not necessarily. For\nisn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? And wouldn't\nhis sense of time, like that of his creators, run counter to ours? This\nwould allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future, harvested what\nhe needed from the killed tinker, and then lived his life backwards (at\nleast from our frame of reference) until the point he encounters Severian,\nwho assists him in his quest to return home, thereby ending his long period\nof exile. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perhaps the best Wolfe-fan-fiction Mr. Borski has written to date.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at sirius.com" }, "date": "1999-05-26T14:16:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jonas", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Robert Borski," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But how can this be? Hasn't the crash in question taken\nplace in the past, thereby vitiating this supposition? Not necessarily. For\nisn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? And wouldn't\nhis sense of time, like that of his creators, run counter to ours? This\nwould allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future, harvested what\nhe needed from the killed tinker, and then lived his life backwards (at\nleast from our frame of reference) until the point he encounters Severian,\nwho assists him in his quest to return home, thereby ending his long period\nof exile." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, this reading moves very far away from or around the evidence (however\none wants to interpret said evidence) found in the antechamber. That is,\nif Jonas is somehow or other related to the crash-prisoners (\"that name was\ncommon in lands where I was young\"), and they have been living in the\nchamber for umpteen generations after their crash (even assuming there is a\ndifference between \"their\" crash and \"his\" crash) . . . well.\n\nRe: living backwards in time. While I myself often write of Yesod timeflow\nas going in a direction \"opposite\" that of Briah, I tend to think that\nvisitors to either universe go with the local flow: Severian does not begin\nregressing toward foetushood in Yesod; O, B, & F do not consume waste and\nexcrete foodstuffs . More to the point: the time travel employed by O,\nB, & F seems to be via the flying saucer; they are not living backwards in\ntime, they are travelling back to a point (Severian's court), then living\nin realtime (his reign on Urth); then travelling back to a more distant\npoint, then visiting (Baldanders) in realtime; and so on.\n\nThen again, yes, I agree that Jonas has elements of the Wandering Jew about\nhim, and this aspect is nicely solved when he steps into the mirrors after\nhaving met with Severian.\n\nFinally, for my own purposes I decided that the second class of androids,\nthe smaller ones like Jonas, would have names based on a metal different\nthan Iron; so I thought \"make it Silver\" with the idea that they were\nhigher ranking/non combatant types. Copper, Brass, Bronze, etc., might\nalso apply (they carry connotations of degrees of value; which Iron does\nnot)--but since Jonas's metal is silvery, I thought Silver good enough.\n\nOf course, this \"Silver class\" concept dovetails with the Wandering Jew\naspect, too . . .\n\n=mantis=" } ] } ] }