{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1645", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1645, "subject": "Digest urth.v027.n006", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1999-05-27T02:40:37+00:00", "last": "1999-05-27T09:42:54+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Patri10629", "address": "patri10629 at aol.com" }, "date": "1999-05-27T02:40:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n006", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In a message dated 5/26/99 6:33:51 PM, urth-errors at lists.best.com writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Timothy Reilly wrote:\nWhy does the Green Man tell Severian that Agia can be found \"above ground\"? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Isn't that just his way of saying she's alive? Or as a \"plant man\" could that \nbe an insult? Plants being both above and below ground. Above ground being \nperverse...\n\nOr am I being stupid?\n\nPatrick" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Timothy Reilly", "address": "treilly at ozemail.com.au" }, "date": "1999-05-27T03:50:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n006", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--------------- MESSAGE urth.v027.n006.8 ---------------\n\nFrom: Michael Andre-Driussi \nSubject: Re: (urth) Green Man\nDate: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:51:19 -0700\nMIME-Version: 1.0\nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\nIn-Reply-To: <199905260531.WAA20677 at lists1.best.com>\n\nHello Timothy Reilly!\n\nYou wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Why does the Green Man tell Severian that Agia can be found \"above\nground\"?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Since the Green Man can supposedly see into the future, and we have\nSeverian's future in hand, the Green Man's phrase may relate to the mine\nat\nSaltus (which is the next place Severian will see her--\"above ground\" on\nthe surface rather than \"under ground\" in the mine shaft), or, since this\nseems rather weak, it may refer to the widow's cabin in the mountains,\nwhere Agia comes down the stairs from the attic where she was\nhiding--definitely \"above ground.\"\n\nStill later, she comes down from the sky on a winged thing and plucks him\nup from behind enemy lines--come to think of it, that was \"above ground,\"\ntoo.\n\nOr maybe the Green Man is just bluffing.\n\n=mantis=" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Michael\n\nThanks for the welcome. I'm an admirer of your book too by the way.\n\nAll of the suggested explanations you made had occurred to me, but none of\nthem really seem right, do they? I have read TBNS several times (it is the\nBook of Gold for me too, as for many others), and have always found this\nexchange puzzling. Since the scene is a crucial one - Severian then gives\nthe Green Man the stone that will help him escape his imprisonment, and the\nGreen Man is later among those who saves Severian in repayment - it seems\nodd that this exchange should be so meaningless. For some reason I was\nreminded of it when Apheta and the other hierogrammates were said to live\nunderground on Yesod in The Urth of the New Sun, only being allowed to\nventure to the surface as a reward (also puzzling, for me at least).\n\nMaybe, as you say the Green Man is bluffing - but surely a bluff would be\nmore specific and less unhelpful than telling Severian that Agia is exactly\nwhere she would be expected to be ie \"above ground\". Similarly, if the\nGreen Man is trying to help, then his advice is not at all helpful to\nSeverian escaping Agia's later attempts at assassination, or at least so it\nseems to me. And in any event, he is responding to a question as to where\nAgia is now, rather than at some time in the future. Yet presumably the\nGreen Man's words have some positive impact on Severian, because he gives\nhim the stone thereafter. So I remain perplexed!\n\nRegards\nTim" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1999-05-27T09:42:54+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n006", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 27 May 1999, Timothy Reilly wrote:\nMaybe, as you say the Green Man is bluffing - but surely a bluff would be\nmore specific and less unhelpful than telling Severian that Agia is exactly\nwhere she would be expected to be ie \"above ground\". Similarly, if the\nGreen Man is trying to help, then his advice is not at all helpful to\nSeverian escaping Agia's later attempts at assassination, or at least so it\nseems to me. And in any event, he is responding to a question as to where\nAgia is now, rather than at some time in the future. Yet presumably the\nGreen Man's words have some positive impact on Severian, because he gives\nhim the stone thereafter. So I remain perplexed!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I always thought that Severian gave him the stone out of compassion, not\njust as a reward for his services. Or if compassion is the wrong word,\nmaybe respect, or perhaps out of dislike for the people who were keeping\nhim captive. \n\n-Rostrum" } ] } ] }