{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1650", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1650, "subject": "Jonas's Distress", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1999-05-28T20:35:25+00:00", "last": "1999-05-29T10:15:18+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robert Borski", "address": "rborski at coredcs.com" }, "date": "1999-05-28T20:35:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Jonas's Distress", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\n\nmantis:\n\nI've always felt that Jonas's emotional distress is predicated by his\nrealization he's going to be imprisoned for a very long period--not simply\nseven generations worth of time, or seven times that, but possibly eons\n(depending on how long his metal parts hold up), a fact hammered even more\nseverely home by his hearing the name Kim Lee Soong again and recalling\nexactly how long it's been since he last heard it. Not only does this mean\nhe'll be condemned to spend entire centuries answering naive questions\nabout the outside world, but that he'll never be able to return home--his\nmost desired goal (well, maybe after nailing Jolenta). I'd be upset,\nanyway.\n\nI'd also like to redirect your attention to something Jonas says in the\nantechamber. Confides he to Severian: \"You told me once that you thought I\nhad an unusual name. Kim Lee Soong would have been a very common kind of\nname when I was...a boy. A common name in places now sunk beneath the sea.\"\nThe ellipsis in the second sentence is Wolfe's, not mine, and seems to\nimply, since robots don't have boyhoods, Jonas is searching for a mutually\ncomprehensible term--one meaning an equivalently early time in his own life\nas a sentient tin can--hence his choice of \"boy.\" And again he might well\nhave acquired the information about KLS's popularity from Asiatic spacers,\nwithout ever having even been to Urth. \n\nRobert Borski" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Andre-Driussi", "address": "mantis at sirius.com" }, "date": "1999-05-28T20:55:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Jonas's Distress", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Robert Borski," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I've always felt that Jonas's emotional distress is predicated by his\nrealization he's going to be imprisoned for a very long period--not simply\nseven generations worth of time, or seven times that, but possibly eons\n(depending on how long his metal parts hold up), a fact hammered even more\nseverely home by his hearing the name Kim Lee Soong again and recalling\nexactly how long it's been since he last heard it. Not only does this mean\nhe'll be condemned to spend entire centuries answering naive questions\nabout the outside world, but that he'll never be able to return home--his\nmost desired goal (well, maybe after nailing Jolenta). I'd be upset,\nanyway." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's a pretty good answer and we'll go with it. His panic seems almost\nlike that of a claustrophobe suddenly confined--which fits with what you\nare saying. (Still, Jonas is usually more direct in saying, \"Ouch, that\nhurts!\" in this case, something more like, \"Holy caca, I'm going to\nfossilize in this joint!\" rather than the more tangential method of talking\nabout geneologies, generations, folklore about bees and honey, outlandish\nnames, geological time frames, etc. All of which add up to \"hard\ntime,\" but with a lot of weird baggage.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'd also like to redirect your attention to something Jonas says in the\nantechamber. Confides he to Severian: \"You told me once that you thought I\nhad an unusual name. Kim Lee Soong would have been a very common kind of\nname when I was...a boy. A common name in places now sunk beneath the sea.\"\nThe ellipsis in the second sentence is Wolfe's, not mine, and seems to\nimply, since robots don't have boyhoods, Jonas is searching for a mutually\ncomprehensible term--one meaning an equivalently early time in his own life\nas a sentient tin can--hence his choice of \"boy.\" And again he might well\nhave acquired the information about KLS's popularity from Asiatic spacers,\nwithout ever having even been to Urth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right, I'm with you on the first point: boy as metaphor for the androidal\nequivalent. I thought he was from Urth, though. Can't remember where I\ngot that idea . . . upon securing the notule he speaks of sailors having\nbrought them \"home\" from the notule planet of origin, but this could be a\nless personal use of the word \"home\" than \"[my] home.\" Lessee, where was\nthe bit where Jonas talked about his \"parents\"? Doesn't he say somewhere\nhis parent was a \"craftsman\"? (Ah, that would be Sears . . . )\n\n=mantis=" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mark Millman", "address": "mark_millman at hmco.com" }, "date": "1999-05-29T10:15:18+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Jonas's Distress", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "\" . . . when I was . . . a boy,\" says Jonas,\nwhose father was a craftsman.\n\nPoor Pinocchio! He's a puppet again!\n\nMark Millman" } ] } ] }