{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1655", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1655, "subject": "Jonas in the Antechamber", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "1999-06-01T09:22:34+00:00", "last": "1999-06-01T14:05:43+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David_Lebling", "address": "david_lebling at avid.com" }, "date": "1999-06-01T09:22:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Jonas in the Antechamber", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "mantis asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "... the\ncentral mystery seems to me to be: what is so upsetting to Jonas? It seems\nto be something(s) that the prisoners told him, rather than just an\nupwelling of empathy for their terrible situation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My take on this, ever since first reading _New Sun_, is that a major part of\nJonas' distress is the realization of how much time has passed on Urth since his\ndeparture. He tells the fairly straightforward story of the _Fortunate Cloud's_\nreturn, remarking that the spaceport wasn't where they expected it to be (bad\ninfo, continental drift, or what?). Then on hearing Severian's tale of the\nMagician and his son, he realizes that the story of Theseus has mutated almost\nbeyond recognition (his remark about the black sails). Then he discovers that\nthe prisoners may be the descendants of people from his ship or another like it\nwhich crashed generations before (the Kim Lee Soong stuff). All three of these\nshocks have in common the apprehension of long spans of time.\n\nFinally, of course, he fears that he may be imprisoned for a long time, and will\nnever see Jolenta again.\n\nSo, we have a span of tens of thousands of years back to the loss of knowledge\nabout the spaceport; a span of thousands of years in which the culture of his\nage was lost or changed; a span of hundreds of years in which the prisoners have\nlost the common culture of humanity; and a span of decades of possible\nimprisonment in which Jonas will lose Jolenta.\n\nLast there is the span of seconds in the room of mirrors in which he regains the\nstars (or does he?).\n\n Dave Lebling\n (aka vizcacha)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Stephenson", "address": "pws at ibmth.df.unipi.it" }, "date": "1999-06-01T14:05:43+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jonas in the Antechamber", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David_Lebling at avid.com wrote:\nMy take on this, ever since first reading _New Sun_, is that a major part of\nJonas' distress is the realization of how much time has passed on Urth since \nhis\ndeparture. He tells the fairly straightforward story of the _Fortunate Cloud'\ns_\nreturn, remarking that the spaceport wasn't where they expected it to be (bad\ninfo, continental drift, or what?)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What, presumably: it's turned into a citadel, with torturers, witches,\nmagic atria, homunculi, the works. Nowhere a hard-working sailor can land\na spaceship any more. (Borskian exercise: now prove that the Matachin\ntower is part of Jonas' ship having passed through a time-warp. Way beyond\nmy competence, but maybe someone out there...)\n\ncorncrake" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Cleary", "address": "kierannwn at tinet.ie" }, "date": "1999-06-01T13:39:09+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Jonas in the Antechamber", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Dave Lebling wrote:\nMy take on this, ever since first reading _New Sun_, is that a major part\nof" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jonas' distress is the realization of how much time has passed on Urth since\nhis\ndeparture. <<\n\nTrue, and I suppose this was a dawning realisation as there probably isn't\nan easy way to find out how much time the average relativistic space\ntraveller has been away simply by looking around, particularly as the\nAutarchs have been trying to keep society in stasis until the New Sun comes\never since the time of Ymar (as Palaemon remarks to Severian at the\nbeginning of his journey).\n\nExcellent work Ranjit, thank you!\n\nKieran C.\n\n\n\nNorth West Labs\nStephen St. Court\nSligo\nRepublic of Ireland\n\nTel. +353 71 69441\nFax. +353 71 69451\nemail: kierannwn at tinet.ie" } ] } ] }