{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1657",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 1657,
    "subject": "The Green Man and Agia",
    "messages": 3,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "1999-06-01T16:26:53+00:00",
    "last": "1999-06-02T10:50:56+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0027-0041@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Nicholas Gevers",
        "address": "potto at webmail.co.za"
      },
      "date": "1999-06-01T16:26:53+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) The Green Man and Agia",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I was a little surprised to read of people stumped by the precise (or\ndeeper) meaning of the green man's prophecy of Severian finding Agia\nabove ground. I've thought all along that there is a typical Wolfean\nambiguity here: soon after the scene in the showman's tent, Severian\nsearches for Thecla underground; as a genuine prophet, the green man\nis a) warning Severian that the woman he will in fact be searching for\nis not the dead Thecla, but Agia (the true author of \"Thecla's\nletter\"), who is still alive (unburied, above ground) and will be\nwaiting in ambush for Severian outside the caverns (above ground); and\nb) that the woman he will believe he is searching for, Thecla, after\nproving not to be in the caverns (below ground) will be resurrected\nthrough the alzabo ritual as part of Severian (again, alive, above\nground).\n//--------------------------------------\nNicholas Gevers\npotto at webmail.co.za"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0027-0050@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Peter Stephenson",
        "address": "pws at ibmth.df.unipi.it"
      },
      "date": "1999-06-02T07:46:29+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) The Green Man and Agia",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0027-0041@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Nicholas Gevers wrote:\nI was a little surprised to read of people stumped by the precise (or\ndeeper) meaning of the green man's prophecy of Severian finding Agia\nabove ground. I've thought all along that there is a typical Wolfean\nambiguity here: soon after the scene in the showman's tent, Severian\nsearches for Thecla underground; as a genuine prophet, the green man\nis ..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I don't want to drag this out into a pointless argument over points of view\n(viewless argument over views of points?) [I was arguing the green man,\nalthough he comes from the future, is a fraud when it comes to `predicting'\npeople's personal histories], but... are there really genuine prophets in\nthe Book?  There are people who've seen the future, and can report on their\nown experience there; there are even beings who live backward in time;\nthere are people with magic mirrors who can see things which may or not be\nthere.  But it doesn't seem to me there is anyone with supernatural sight.\nIt would seem to violate the `no magic' rule.  I'd be fascinated to hear a\ncounterexample.\n\ncorncrake"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0027-0051@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Peter Westlake",
        "address": "peter at harlequin.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "1999-06-02T10:50:56+00:00",
      "subject": "Re: (urth) The Green Man and Agia",
      "in_reply_to": "<urth-v0027-0050@digest.urth.net>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "At 09:46 1999-06-02 +0200, you wrote:\n..."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "I don't want to drag this out into a pointless argument over points of view\n(viewless argument over views of points?) [I was arguing the green man,\nalthough he comes from the future, is a fraud when it comes to `predicting'\npeople's personal histories], but... are there really genuine prophets in\nthe Book?  There are people who've seen the future, and can report on their\nown experience there; there are even beings who live backward in time;\nthere are people with magic mirrors who can see things which may or not be\nthere.  But it doesn't seem to me there is anyone with supernatural sight.\nIt would seem to violate the `no magic' rule.  I'd be fascinated to hear a\ncounterexample."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Not a person, but what about the Vatic Fountain? It shows Severian all sorts\nof things from his future. How does it work? Does it just show lots of things\nand let you interpret them after the fact, or can it really prophesy? Would\nit work for anyone else? If not, how does it know who's looking at it? Or is\nSeverian projecting his own foreknowledge of the future (if any) onto it?\n\nSBear."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}