{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1664", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1664, "subject": "Digest urth.v027.n011", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "1999-06-02T10:03:23+00:00", "last": "1999-06-03T09:17:20+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Kieran Mullen", "address": "kieran at brigit.nhn.ou.edu" }, "date": "1999-06-02T11:40:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n011", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:21, Robert Borski wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "For isn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? ... This\nwould allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future ...<<" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one\nship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came\nfrom the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long\nJonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before\nHethor showed up.\n\n It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since\nit is so huge. Surely there would be some notice! " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "mantis asks:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "... the\ncentral mystery seems to me to be: what is so upsetting to Jonas? It seems\nto be something(s) that the prisoners told him, rather than just an\nupwelling of empathy for their terrible situation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " I always put this down to delerium. His organic parts are feverish and\nthat's causing problems for him. He seems more delerious than simply\npanicky.\n\n Kieran Mullen" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Carlos Martinho", "address": "carlosom71 at yahoo.com" }, "date": "1999-06-02T10:03:23+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n011", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that\nthere is only one\nship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas\nand Hethor came\nfrom the same crashlanding. However, we don't\nreally know how long\nJonas has been on Urth - he could have been there\nfor years before\nHethor showed up.\n\n It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship\ncrashed on Urth since\nit is so huge. Surely there would be some notice! " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It could have been some sort of shuttle, like the one\nwich brings Severian end Burgundofara back to Urth..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Parmenter", "address": "dan at lec.com" }, "date": "1999-06-02T11:52:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n011", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Andre-Driussi \nIn the past on this list there have been periodic reference to Blish's\nbook, by three or four people hereabouts.\n\nWell I just read it, myself, and I liked it a lot more than the BLACK\nEASTER books, with which it shares obvious similaries (including, IMHO, a\nweak ending--but now I'm getting ahead of myself).\n\nSo I would like people to take this opportunity to chat about COC, compare\nand contrast with the Urth Cycle. I know that at least a few of you have\nread it, and most likely many more have, since it is an award winning\n(Hugo, I believe?) classic." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Things worth noting:\n\n*spoilers*\n\nThe original novella ends a bit more ambiguously than the novel does I\nbelieve.\n\nI've always thought that COC should be read along with BOTNS and the\nC.S. Lewis \"space trilogy\". Both COC and \"the space trilogy\" deal\nwith the notion of the consequences (and origins) of a race seemingly\nwithout sin. \n\nI agree that this should be discussed, but this is not the time for me\nto do so, since I'm at the office.\n\nLex Shellac" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Malthouse", "address": "matthew.malthouse at guardian.co.uk" }, "date": "1999-06-03T09:17:20+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Re: Digest urth.v027.n011", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Kieran Mullen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:21, Robert Borski wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "For isn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? ... This\nwould allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future ...<<" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one\nship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came\nfrom the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long\nJonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before\nHethor showed up.\n\n It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since\nit is so huge. Surely there would be some notice!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd offer two reasonable solutions.\n\nFirst _if_ Jonas sailed Tzad's ship then the vessel in which he crashed\nmight have been some tender or shuttle.\n\nPerhaps more likely; Tzad's ship might be the only one that sails a\ncourse between the universes but it most certainly isn't the only one in\nthe skys of Urth of which we know.\n\nThere are those vessels of the heirodules - which may themselves be only\ntenders of The Ship. There are the ships that once came and went from\nthe Old Port (Citadel). There are the ships that made a human empire in\nspace and the same, or others that brough Typhon back. If one want to go\nslightly outside the bounds of Urth then there is at least one\ngeneration ship from Typhon's era.\n\nWhat is that requires Jonas to have been a sailor on Tzad's ship and no\nother?\n\nMatthew" } ] } ] }