Digest urth.v027.n011 The Urth list — 4 messages, 4 voices, 02 Jun 1999 https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1664 Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. ============================================================================== Kieran Mullen — 02 Jun 1999, 11:40 > On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:21, Robert Borski wrote: > > > For isn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? ... This > > > would allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future ...<< In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one ship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came from the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long Jonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before Hethor showed up. It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since it is so huge. Surely there would be some notice! > mantis asks: > > ... the > > central mystery seems to me to be: what is so upsetting to Jonas? It seems > > to be something(s) that the prisoners told him, rather than just an > > upwelling of empathy for their terrible situation. I always put this down to delerium. His organic parts are feverish and that's causing problems for him. He seems more delerious than simply panicky. Kieran Mullen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Carlos Martinho — 02 Jun 1999, 10:03 follows, by subject match Kieran Mullen > In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that > there is only one > ship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas > and Hethor came > from the same crashlanding. However, we don't > really know how long > Jonas has been on Urth - he could have been there > for years before > Hethor showed up. > > It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship > crashed on Urth since > it is so huge. Surely there would be some notice! It could have been some sort of shuttle, like the one wich brings Severian end Burgundofara back to Urth... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan Parmenter — 02 Jun 1999, 11:52 follows, by subject match Carlos Martinho > From: Michael Andre-Driussi > In the past on this list there have been periodic reference to Blish's > book, by three or four people hereabouts. > > Well I just read it, myself, and I liked it a lot more than the BLACK > EASTER books, with which it shares obvious similaries (including, IMHO, a > weak ending--but now I'm getting ahead of myself). > > So I would like people to take this opportunity to chat about COC, compare > and contrast with the Urth Cycle. I know that at least a few of you have > read it, and most likely many more have, since it is an award winning > (Hugo, I believe?) classic. Things worth noting: *spoilers* The original novella ends a bit more ambiguously than the novel does I believe. I've always thought that COC should be read along with BOTNS and the C.S. Lewis "space trilogy". Both COC and "the space trilogy" deal with the notion of the consequences (and origins) of a race seemingly without sin. I agree that this should be discussed, but this is not the time for me to do so, since I'm at the office. Lex Shellac ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Matthew Malthouse — 03 Jun 1999, 09:17 follows, by subject match Dan Parmenter > Kieran Mullen wrote: > > On Wed, 26 May 1999 13:29:21, Robert Borski wrote: > > > > For isn't Jonas, a former servitor of the Hierodules, from Yesod? ... This > > > > would allow for Jonas/Sidero to have crashed in the future ...<< > In one of the postscripts Wolfe speculates that there is only one > ship like Tzad's. I always sorta thought that Jonas and Hethor came > from the same crashlanding. However, we don't really know how long > Jonas has been on Urth - he could have been there for years before > Hethor showed up. > > It seems unreasonable to think that Tzad's ship crashed on Urth since > it is so huge. Surely there would be some notice! I'd offer two reasonable solutions. First _if_ Jonas sailed Tzad's ship then the vessel in which he crashed might have been some tender or shuttle. Perhaps more likely; Tzad's ship might be the only one that sails a course between the universes but it most certainly isn't the only one in the skys of Urth of which we know. There are those vessels of the heirodules - which may themselves be only tenders of The Ship. There are the ships that once came and went from the Old Port (Citadel). There are the ships that made a human empire in space and the same, or others that brough Typhon back. If one want to go slightly outside the bounds of Urth then there is at least one generation ship from Typhon's era. What is that requires Jonas to have been a sailor on Tzad's ship and no other? Matthew ------------------------------------------------------------------------------