Subject: (urth) Evidence of Christianity in Urth's past?

From: Craig.Christensen <craig.christensen at lawson.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 07:57:20 +0000

Has it been established here that Christianity played no part in Urth's past?
Or that it did, but so long ago that it has been forgotten?  Would Dorcas'
memory of the rood be evidence that it did?  Does 'rood' have other meanings
than crucifix?

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

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From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at sirius.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 09:15:15 +0000

>memory of the rood be evidence that it did?  Does 'rood' have other meanings

It has been established that Dorcas's family made enamelled crucifixes.
Likewise, that the pelerines are a band of Red Cross women (battlefield
healers), and they use a cross form on their letters (the "narthex sigil of
the order").

(Greg Feeley used these points to extrapolate that the pelerines bought
their crucifixes from the family of Dorcas whenever they were in Nessus;
this family connection/association then facilitates the meeting between
Catherine and Ouen.)

So yes: a form of Christianity played a part in Urth's past, in the
teaching and church of the Conciliator (at the very least); and was so long
ago that it has been all but forgotten.

=mantis=

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:53:44 +0000

> ago that it has been all but forgotten.

I know we've been through this some before, but I was curious in what
sense you think Christianity played a part in "the teaching and church of
the Conciliator." 

-Rostrum

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From: Michael Andre-Driussi <mantis at sirius.com>
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:52:00 +0000

Rostrum,

>sense you think Christianity played a part in "the teaching and church of

(Where's Jim Jordan =now=?!) <g>

While I'm not about to produce an essay on the spot, I might be able to
answer the question if it were a tad more specific.

Or, better: If you have something to say, go ahead and say it!

We are on the same page, I hope: Canog's THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN.

A few details chosen at apparent random: Holy Katharine, St. Amand,
Nilamon, Ctesiphon's Cross.  It seems to me that there are only three ways
for these to appear in the text: either the roots of the Commonwealth's
culture go so deep as to remember Christianity (in the same way that the
Apollo Mission photo is retained in the picture gallery); or, the Church of
the Conciliator has recapitulated Christianity (mainly a Greek Orthodox
form) in a sort of parallel evolution (so the Commonwealth's Katharine
isn't Earth's Katharine, she just looks like a twin); or it is all just a
translating error on the part of Gene Wolfe.

FWIW, I doubt that this approaches the answer you want to read, and as we
have gone over this ground before, I have the sense of repeating myself
repeating, still: I have a sense that Severian's Narrative is a
pagano-Christian text, in that it approaches Christianity by way of pagan
elements and traditions.  It recapitulates Christianity along the way (just
as an obscure Jewish sect was transformed by some Greeks and then some
Romans).  This is somewhat similar to Dante's Comedy, but also somewhat
opposite: Dante gathered the suppressed pagan elements into a well
established Christianity; Severian approaches the nebulous Christian
through the established Pagan.

=mantis=

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From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:49:56 +0000

> translating error on the part of Gene Wolfe.

That last bit gets at the possibility I was wondering about.  No one
reading Tolkien thinks that Aragorn is Christ-like because there was
Christianity in Middle Earth's past.  The resemblances are attributed to
Tolkien himself.  Is it possible that the religious stuff in the New Sun
looks like Christianity for the same reason the spaceships look like
sailboats: because Wolfe likes Christianity and sailing?

I think one reason I ask is that I'm trying to puzzle out whether
Severian's story is meant to be separate from the story of Christianity,
to be related in the mind of the reader, or whether Wolfe intends the
Christian story to be part of Severian's story (or vice versa).

-Rostrum