Subject: (urth) Juturna's Backstroke (long again)

From: Greene, Carlton <cgreene2 at hunton.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 10:19:17 +0000

I wrote:

<<Sev says of Juturna: "She saved me once when
I was a boy" and then to her "Do you remember that?"  Juturna replies "No.
It hasn't yet occurred.  It will, because you spoke.">>

Then Vizcacha wrote:

<<I've always assumed that this means that Juturna will now swim through
time and
then Gyoll to assure that Severian is saved.  That is, it is the Juturna of
the
present of _Urth of the New Sun_ who goes back and saves him from drowning
in
_Shadow of the Torturer_.>>

I completely agree.  I guess what puzzles me are Juturna's motives for doing
so -- i.e. why go back and save someone whom you know will bring the New
Sun, if your master is dead set against it.  Perhaps the opportunities for
befriending, molding, and diverting Sev early in his life were worth the
risk of assisting in the creation of a New Sun messiah.  Or perhaps Juturna
is a traitor to Abaia.  Or  maybe Abaia changed his mind.  Anyway, a bit of
a mystery.

I also question what is meant when we are told that the New Sun will
"destroy" Abaia and Erebus.  It may be meant literally (i.e. increased solar
radiation or rising water temperatures or whatever will kill them) or it
could be meant figuratively -- i.e. it will destroy their minions the
Ascians, as well as the rest of humanity that they sought to enslave, thus
effectively eliminating their power and the object of their desires (though
we are never told why they wanted mankind so bad).

Certainly the New Sun seems to have little effect on Juturna, who is seen
frolicking and munching fish in the waters of Ushas.

One problem with the Sev's skull theory I advanced is that it assumes a
copying of Sev a la the Tzadkiel/hierodule "writing in the sand" style of
resurrection.  However, we know that when Sev performs miracles via the
power of the New Sun, he does so by a different method -- direct
reconstitution of the dead -- a literal re-animation (returning the anima).
Since we have no reason to believe that the undines can resurrect, and there
are no obvious heirodules about, there is a problem there. (of course, there
is no generic problem with Sev performing miracles at this time -- he brings
Triskele back).

One final notion.  At one point (no cite, sorry) after bringing the New Sun,
Sev notes that his ability to draw on the power of the New Sun for miracles
is gone (presumably because his job in bringing the white fountain is done).
If so, how does Sev travel from Ushas to the time of Apu-Punchau at
Juturna's direction? -- it seems from the Apu-Punchau chapters that the
walking of the corridors of time takes some energy source.  (This in turn
begs the question of how the green man does it).

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

---

From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:24:47 +0000

>is no generic problem with Sev performing miracles at this time -- he brings

	It's been my assumption that Severian simply cannot be killed, and brings
himself back to life, so to speak -- cannot be killed at this pre-New Sun
point in his life anyway. But maybe that's not correct. Obviously this is a
baptismal scene, and perhaps it is the Outsider (or Increate) who does
this, since the entire redemptive scenario is His doing, ultimately. 
	Such a construction would fit with Wolfean beliefs, but is it actually
what is intended here? Perhaps, is we let the Silk narrative inform the
Severian narrative a bit. Wolfe is interested not only in how Severian came
to the throne (which is Severian's interest), but how Severian begins to
outgrow a horrible background and upbringing, becoming a (somewhat) better
man. One would expect some kind of religious experience to be the point at
which that growth is initiated. 
	Of course, where this is pretty obvious in the Silk narrative, it is way
in the background of Severian's. The Increate, or Pancreator, and the
Theoanthropos (Jesus Christ, only mentioned once) are not, in any obvious
way at least, directly interacting with Severian.
	I still suspect that we only have the first two parts of a Severian
trilogy, however, and that eventually there may be more to come. Wolfe has
explored politics (war, sovereignty) in the first four-fold part, and
ecology in the second. But his ultimate interest is in redemption,
understood in the broadest possible way. 
	Arguably, though, the Long Sun narrative is that "third part." 
	The Severian narrative would be Wolfe's "Old Testament," and the Silk
narrative, with Horn afterward, would be his "New Testament." God is way in
the background, working through numerous mediators, in the Severian
narrative; but He becomes an Actor in the Silk narrative. Remember that the
Noahic Flood did end one corrupt world, ruled by Mighty Men, and brought in
a new one, but not THE new one of the whole Bible narrative. 
	Consider that Jesus did his work in a tiny province within an empire that
covered only part of the globe. But what He set in motion gradually changes
the entire course of human civilization. (Whether some of us like this or
not is not at issue; Wolfe thinks so, and writes in terms of that belief.)
Suppose that Silk's work is destined to spread not only to all of the
Whorl, but also back to Urth as well....
	Just some grist for your mills.

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