Subject: (urth) Borges and Vance

From: David_Lebling <david_lebling at avid.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:58:50 +0000

Alex David Groce writes of Borges' influence on Wolfe:
<<Borges is also always looming over Wolfe's work ... "Funes the Memorius" and
"The Circular Ruins" are obvious ones.>>

I'd like to add, as a less obvious one, also from _Ficciones_, "The Approach to
al'Mutasim."  This is a  story about a pulp genre (mystery) novel which
eventually concerns the search for a messiah-like figure.  It is a work with
many levels, but one of them is a meditation on the importance of mystery (or
perhaps the unattainability of truth) in fiction.  One part of the story
concerns a revised edition of the book in question, in which all the mysteries
are revealed, producing a much inferior work.  At another level it is about
religion, and subtle hints, and many other bits and pieces (including a
planetary, um, Indian adventure) which are quite lupine.

But then, all Wolfe fans are Borges fans already, right?

Also,
<<Jack Vance is the real center of science fiction's literary influence of
Wolfe.>>

Couldn't agree more.  However (as mantis has pointed out elsewhere), there is
quite a contrast between Vance's picaresque, areligious, sometimes amoral heroes
and Wolfe's tormented, sometimes unknowing seekers after God.  To be honest,
Sev's behavior is not unlike that of a Vance hero; he just agonizes over it
more.

But then, all Wolfe fans are Vance fans already, right?

(A sad parallel between Borges and Vance is that Vance is now blind or nearly
so.)

     Dave Lebling
     (aka vizcacha)

*More Wolfe info & archive of this list at http://www.urth.net/urth/

---

From: Jim Jordan <jbjordan at gnt.net>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 14:46:43 +0000

>But then, all Wolfe fans are Borges fans already, right?

To be sure. And Borges was a super-Chesterton fan. As is Wolfe, of course.

One should probably also add, as regards religious influences, C.S. Lewis,
who of course also was influenced by Chesterton.

Ultimately, however, Wolfe is ... Wolfe. Sui generis.

Nutria

---

From: Jim Henley <jlhenley at erols.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:14:11 +0000

> -----Original Message-----
> From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On
> Behalf Of David_Lebling at avid.com
>

You betcha!

> (A sad parallel between Borges and Vance is that Vance is now
> blind or nearly so.)

And they haven't given Vance the damned Nobel Prize yet either. Say, has
anyone ever seen Vance and Borges _together_?

Best,

Jim
 ****************************
 "I once was lost
	but now I'm just blind"
			- Kid Rock

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:32:41 +0000

On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 David_Lebling at avid.com wrote:

> al'Mutasim."  

I'd also like to add "The Immortal," a story which reminds me more of
Wolfe's style than any other.  For instance, the narrator gives offhanded
comments from which one can infer his cruelty, not because he's trying to
hide anything, but because torturing slaves for information or crucifying
seditious soldiers is such standard operating procedure that it hardly
bears mentioning.

Also the cool, distanced tone of the narrator reminds me of one of Wolfe's
narrators (Severian, Latro).

-Rostrum

---

From: Jim Henley <jlhenley at erols.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 19:14:44 +0000

> Behalf Of Michael Straight
>
> Also the cool, distanced tone of the narrator reminds me of one
> of Wolfe's narrators (Severian, Latro).

Wow. "Cool" and "distanced" are the last words I'd have applied to Latro. I
can see it for Sev though.

Best,

Jim
 *****************************************
"It ain't the knife thru your heart that tears you apart
  it's just the thought of someone sticking it in"
              -- Graham Parker, "Protection"

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:14:21 +0000

> can see it for Sev though.

What I'm thinking of is that both narrators have a tendency to report
extraordinary events in an almost casual way sometimes neglecting to go
into detail about what we would consider the most interesting or unusual
aspect of events. 

-Rostrum

---

From: Jim Henley <jlhenley at erols.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 23:38:26 +0000

> into detail about what we would consider the most interesting or unusual

Ah, but so much of the time, Latro has no standard by which to tell the
events are unusual, is the impression I get. He describes meeting, say, the
river god casually because for all he knows this sort of thing happens all
the time.

Best,

Jim
 ************************************
 "Here's a song that you can sing
       by which to do the measuring"
              -- Elvis Costello, "45"

---

From: Michael Straight <straight at email.unc.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 09:13:46 +0000

> river god casually because for all he knows this sort of thing happens all

Well sure, I didn't mean to malign Latro and say that he personally was
cool and distanced, it's his narrative style I was talking about.

You could make a similar argument that it's Severian's perfect memory
rather than his actual temperment that creates that effect in his
narrative.

-Rostrum