# Borges and Vance *The Urth list — 8 messages, 4 voices, 26 Oct 1999* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### David_Lebling *26 Oct 1999, 14:58* Alex David Groce writes of Borges' influence on Wolfe: <> I'd like to add, as a less obvious one, also from _Ficciones_, "The Approach to al'Mutasim." This is a story about a pulp genre (mystery) novel which eventually concerns the search for a messiah-like figure. It is a work with many levels, but one of them is a meditation on the importance of mystery (or perhaps the unattainability of truth) in fiction. One part of the story concerns a revised edition of the book in question, in which all the mysteries are revealed, producing a much inferior work. At another level it is about religion, and subtle hints, and many other bits and pieces (including a planetary, um, Indian adventure) which are quite lupine. But then, all Wolfe fans are Borges fans already, right? Also, <> Couldn't agree more. However (as mantis has pointed out elsewhere), there is quite a contrast between Vance's picaresque, areligious, sometimes amoral heroes and Wolfe's tormented, sometimes unknowing seekers after God. To be honest, Sev's behavior is not unlike that of a Vance hero; he just agonizes over it more. But then, all Wolfe fans are Vance fans already, right? (A sad parallel between Borges and Vance is that Vance is now blind or nearly so.) Dave Lebling (aka vizcacha) --- ### Jim Jordan *26 Oct 1999, 14:46 · follows David_Lebling* > At 02:58 PM 10/26/99 -0400, you wrote: > > But then, all Wolfe fans are Borges fans already, right? To be sure. And Borges was a super-Chesterton fan. As is Wolfe, of course. One should probably also add, as regards religious influences, C.S. Lewis, who of course also was influenced by Chesterton. Ultimately, however, Wolfe is ... Wolfe. Sui generis. Nutria --- ### Jim Henley *26 Oct 1999, 22:14 · follows Jim Jordan* > -----Original Message----- > From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On > Behalf Of David_Lebling at avid.com > > But then, all Wolfe fans are Borges fans already, right? You betcha! > (A sad parallel between Borges and Vance is that Vance is now > blind or nearly so.) And they haven't given Vance the damned Nobel Prize yet either. Say, has anyone ever seen Vance and Borges _together_? Best, Jim **************************** "I once was lost but now I'm just blind" - Kid Rock --- ### Michael Straight *27 Oct 1999, 09:32 · follows Jim Henley* > On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 David_Lebling at avid.com wrote: > Alex David Groce writes of Borges' influence on Wolfe: > < "The Circular Ruins" are obvious ones.>> > > I'd like to add, as a less obvious one, also from _Ficciones_, "The Approach to > al'Mutasim." I'd also like to add "The Immortal," a story which reminds me more of Wolfe's style than any other. For instance, the narrator gives offhanded comments from which one can infer his cruelty, not because he's trying to hide anything, but because torturing slaves for information or crucifying seditious soldiers is such standard operating procedure that it hardly bears mentioning. Also the cool, distanced tone of the narrator reminds me of one of Wolfe's narrators (Severian, Latro). -Rostrum --- ### Jim Henley *27 Oct 1999, 19:14 · follows Michael Straight* > -----Original Message----- > From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On > Behalf Of Michael Straight > > Also the cool, distanced tone of the narrator reminds me of one > of Wolfe's narrators (Severian, Latro). Wow. "Cool" and "distanced" are the last words I'd have applied to Latro. I can see it for Sev though. Best, Jim ***************************************** "It ain't the knife thru your heart that tears you apart it's just the thought of someone sticking it in" -- Graham Parker, "Protection" --- ### Michael Straight *27 Oct 1999, 22:14 · follows Jim Henley* >> On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Jim Henley wrote: >> Also the cool, distanced tone of the narrator reminds me of one >> of Wolfe's narrators (Severian, Latro). > Wow. "Cool" and "distanced" are the last words I'd have applied to Latro. I > can see it for Sev though. What I'm thinking of is that both narrators have a tendency to report extraordinary events in an almost casual way sometimes neglecting to go into detail about what we would consider the most interesting or unusual aspect of events. -Rostrum --- ### Jim Henley *27 Oct 1999, 23:38 · follows Michael Straight* > -----Original Message----- > From: urth-errors at lists.best.com [mailto:urth-errors at lists.best.com]On > Behalf Of Michael Straight > > What I'm thinking of is that both narrators have a tendency to report > extraordinary events in an almost casual way sometimes neglecting to go > into detail about what we would consider the most interesting or unusual > aspect of events. Ah, but so much of the time, Latro has no standard by which to tell the events are unusual, is the impression I get. He describes meeting, say, the river god casually because for all he knows this sort of thing happens all the time. Best, Jim ************************************ "Here's a song that you can sing by which to do the measuring" -- Elvis Costello, "45" --- ### Michael Straight *28 Oct 1999, 09:13 · follows Jim Henley* >> On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, Jim Henley wrote: >> What I'm thinking of is that both narrators have a tendency to report >> extraordinary events in an almost casual way sometimes neglecting to go >> into detail about what we would consider the most interesting or unusual >> aspect of events. > Ah, but so much of the time, Latro has no standard by which to tell the > events are unusual, is the impression I get. He describes meeting, say, the > river god casually because for all he knows this sort of thing happens all > the time. Well sure, I didn't mean to malign Latro and say that he personally was cool and distanced, it's his narrative style I was talking about. You could make a similar argument that it's Severian's perfect memory rather than his actual temperment that creates that effect in his narrative. -Rostrum ---