{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/1879", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 1879, "subject": "Giving Wolfe to the inexperienced", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "1999-10-27T22:45:57+00:00", "last": "1999-11-03T08:51:47+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan Rabin", "address": "danrabin at a.crl.com" }, "date": "1999-10-27T22:45:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Giving Wolfe to the inexperienced", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tony Ellis reports success in giving Wolfe books to both sf- and\nnon-sf-experienced readers.\n\nI've had an odd mix of successes myself. At least three of my close\nfriends, all of whom had at least a little sf experience, are now Wolfe\nfans. One even reads them all as they come out, as I do.\n\nOn the other hand, another close friend, who keeps current in the\n\"mainstream\" genre, whose bookshelves are filled with books of the sort\nthat get reviewed in the New York Times Book Revies, who has a fine head\nfor the human experience as presented in literature, couldn't get past page\none of _Peace_.\n\nI can't figure it out.\n\n -- Dan Rabin" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1999-10-28T09:44:30+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Giving Wolfe to the inexperienced", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wonder if we could put together a list of the \"easiest\" or \"most\naccessible\" Wolfe? \"Wolfe for Beginners\"? I recently saw someone\nrecommend \"Fifth Head of Cerebrus\" as a place to start with Wolfe, but\nthat seems to me to be one of his more obscure and difficult works (but\nthen I'm biased, because it's my least favorite, for some reason). Here's\nmy list:\n\nNOVELS\nthe Long Sun books\nPeace (especially for non SF-readers)\nmaybe Devil in the Forest\nmaybe the Soldier books (especially for a fan of Mythology)\n\nSHORT STORIES\nWar Beneath the Tree\nThe Last Thrilling Wonder Story\nForlesen\nWestwind\nA Cabin on the Coast\nHow I Lost the Second World War\nWhen I Was Ming the Merciless\n\n-Rostrum" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Westlake", "address": "peter at harlequin.co.uk" }, "date": "1999-10-28T15:27:57+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Giving Wolfe to the inexperienced", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 09:44 1999-10-28 -0400, you wrote:\n\nI wonder if we could put together a list of the \"easiest\" or \"most\naccessible\" Wolfe? \"Wolfe for Beginners\"? I recently saw someone\nrecommend \"Fifth Head of Cerebrus\" as a place to start with Wolfe, but\nthat seems to me to be one of his more obscure and difficult works (but\nthen I'm biased, because it's my least favorite, for some reason). Here's\nmy list:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "NOVELS (in addition to Rostrum's list)\n\n\"Free Live Free\" is fairly straightforward; maybe it's not typical?\nI could be missing something, of course :-)\n\nI'm not convinced that one shouldn't dive straight in with\n\"Shadow of the Torturer\". It has the advantage of being\nimmensely readable, and rewarding even a superficial reading\nwith a ripping good yarn. Finding large chunks of it engraved\nin one's brain almost verbatim years after reading it gave\nme a pretty big clue to the quality of the writing, too.\n\nSHORT STORIES\n\n\"Kevin Malone\" is an excellent exercise for beginners.\nIt would be ideal for a tutorial: it's short enough that\nyou can say \"read that\" and offers great scope for hints,\nas we saw on the thread about it.\n\n\"Morning Glory\" is a particular favourite of mine;\nit's also somewhat atypical in being both straightforward\nand optimistic in outlook. Alex said a while back (\"Mysteries\nof Gene Wolfe/\"The Science in Science-Fiction\") that the\nmysteriousness of Wolfe's work is responsible for a lot of\nits lasting appeal, and I agree; Morning Glory doesn't leave\nany outstanding mysteries to puzzle over, but touches the\nemotions in a lasting way instead. In that respect it reminds\nme a little of \"Slow River\" by Nicola Griffith.\n\nAn idle thought: a collaboration between Griffith and Wolfe\nwould be the ultimate virtual reality, an imaginative experience\nso vividly real and meaningful that it would be impossible to\nleave. Sorry, have I said that before?\n\nSpectacled Bear" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jason Voegele", "address": "jvoegele at carolla.com" }, "date": "1999-10-28T10:51:56+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Giving Wolfe to the inexperienced", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Dan Rabin \nOn the other hand, another close friend, who keeps current in the\n\"mainstream\" genre, whose bookshelves are filled with books of the sort\nthat get reviewed in the New York Times Book Revies, who has a fine head\nfor the human experience as presented in literature, couldn't get past page\none of _Peace_." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've had the same unfortunate experience with PEACE. I've a friend that\nreads what I'd consider quality work within the genre (Dan Simmons, PK Dick,\nto name a couple), and he's also a huge fan of James Joyce, Joseph Conrad,\nand T.S. Eliot. The last book I recommended to him (Mark Helprin's MEMOIR\nFROM ANTPROOF CASE) he absolutely loved. I recommended PEACE, which he\nstarted and quickly set aside saying he wasn't in a \"literary mood\". I went\nback to Helprin, and recommended WINTER'S TALE. He couldn't quite grok that\none and gave up on it as well. I thought I'd give Wolfe one more shot and\ntold him to try TBOTNS. He's reading it now, but progress is slow and I\ndon't think he's really getting into it.\n\nAnyway, my point is, I guess, that there is no particular precondition for\nwhich we can say \"this person will become a Wolfe fan\". Genre fans find him\nstrange and difficult (in general), while those with more literary\naspirations dismiss him for his genre associations. A sad case indeed, and\nI found it particularly disheartening that PEACE hasn't been so well\nreceived by those who apparently recognize good writing when they see it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Michael Straight \nI wonder if we could put together a list of the \"easiest\" or \"most\naccessible\" Wolfe? \"Wolfe for Beginners\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "OK, so here's my list:\n\nTo \"non-genre\" fans:\n1) Peace\n2) Storeys from the Old Hotel\n3) The Book of the New Sun\n4) The Soldier books\n5) The Fifth Head of Cerberus\n\nTo genre fans:\n1) The Fifth Head of Cerberus\n2) The Book of the Long Sun\n3) The Book of the New Sun\n4) The Soldier books\n5) The Island of Dr. Death and Other Stories, and Other Stories\n\n\nJason Voegele" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Michael Straight", "address": "straight at email.unc.edu" }, "date": "1999-11-03T08:51:47+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Giving Wolfe to the inexperienced", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Peter Westlake wrote:\nAn idle thought: a collaboration between Griffith and Wolfe\nwould be the ultimate virtual reality, an imaginative experience\nso vividly real and meaningful that it would be impossible to\nleave. Sorry, have I said that before?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Me, I'm waiting for Wolfe and vizcacha to team up and produce the greatest\nwork of interactive fiction ever.\n\n-Rostrum" } ] } ] }